Crowdsourcing a Better Government

In this episode of GSA Does That!?, we jump into 10x, the program dedicated to revolutionizing government technology through the innovative ideas of federal employees. Discover how the journey to a more efficient government begins with bold visions from everyday civil servants. Join host Rob Trubia as he talks with Will Cahoe, 10x's Communications and Outreach Lead, and Carey Johnston from the US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), a federal employee with a transformative idea.

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Are you looking for more information about 10x? Check out the resource below.

• 10x.gsa.gov

"GSA Does That!?" is the U.S. General Services Administration's first agency-wide podcast, offering listeners an inside look into how GSA and its partners benefit the American people. Hosted by Rob Trubia, the podcast features interviews with GSA leaders, experts, partners, and customers, covering topics such as federal real estate, acquisitions, and technology. The title reflects many's surprise at the scope of GSA's impact. At the same time, the artwork pays homage to President Harry S. Truman, who established GSA in 1949 to improve government efficiency and save taxpayer money. Whether you're a policy wonk or just curious about government operations, you can join the listener community.

For more information about the show visit, gsa.gov/podcast.

Transcript

GSA Does That!? - Episode 12 - Crowdsourcing a Better Government

Episode Release Date - 10/31/23


Rob Trubia
Thank you for joining us on GSA Does That!? the podcast that uncovers the stories behind the federal agency working every day to deliver a more effective and efficient government. I'm your host, Rob Trubia, and thanks for being here. Today, we're talking about crowdsourcing, but not just any crowdsourcing. We're talking about crowdsourcing a better government. That's right. The 10X initiative by GSA is a testament to the power of collective innovation.


Always on the hunt for revolutionary ideas. This program invites suggestions from federal employees on how technology can be a game changer in improving the government's service to the public. But the 10X program isn't just about gathering suggestions. It's about propelling them into action. And joining us today is 10x Communications and Outreach Lead, Will Cahoe. Will knows this program inside and out and has a front row seat into every submission made.


We'll ask him how to submit ideas. And then just what happens to those ideas once they make the 10x team stand up and take notice. Also joining us is Carey Johnston from the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, better known as the EPA. Carey took the initiative and submitted an idea. He's joining us to share his firsthand experience of being a part of this innovative process.


Before we jump in, remember, this podcast is available on all major platforms, so please be sure to subscribe for more information about this episode and others, visit us online at gsa.gov/podcast. Gentlemen, thank you both for being on the podcast today. We certainly appreciate your time and we're so glad you've joined us. Will, we're titling this episode Crowdsourcing a Better Government.


Before we dig in to deep, help us understand just what 10X is and what makes it a crowdsourcing platform.


Will Cahoe
Definitely. Thanks for the question, Rob, and it's great to be here. Well, you know, the spoiler is right there in the title. We crowdsource ideas from federal employees all across the government on ways that government can use technology better to serve the public. And that's sort of our our basic bread and butter. We invest in ideas rather than, you know, technology or systems.


And we're all out here fighting the good fight for innovation, trying to ship good for government products and service.


Rob Trubia
Excellent. What about the 10X name? Where does that come from?


Will Cahoe
Yes. There's a bit of lore behind this, not really. It's when we were standing up 10X, we really wanted to learn from the private sector, particularly folks in the venture world, and to incorporate practices that they have into the federal space and something that a lot of venture folks say is, you know, we're only going to invest in something if we think we can get ten times the return on investment.


So we thought, hey, that's a good goal. Let's try this in government. And so ten times became 10X and the rest is history.


Rob Trubia
I think what's really interesting about this program, it's very um, seems more like something you'd find out in industry. You'd see an industry, and I think that's what makes it so intriguing in that you don't see crowdsourcing happening in the government. And where are you getting your ideas? Where do you get your ideas, Where do your submissions come from?


Will Cahoe
Yeah. Every project that 10X has ever invested in start off as ideas that we receive from federal employees all across the government. And so the reason that we do this is because we really believe that the people closest to the problem have creative ideas and are making incredible observations, and they know ways that they can do their job better and the way that they can improve how their agencies deliver their missions.


So our target is not the CTO or the CIO level. It's not, you know, regulators. Our target for the ideas that we crowdsource are truly feds, civil servants at every agency from GS1 all the way to SES and everywhere in between. We really want to make this inclusive and we want everyone across government to be able to have their ideas nominated and to really believe that their ideas can and can change public service for the better.


Rob Trubia
And Carey. We've got you on because you had an idea. Tell us a little bit where you learned about 10X. How did you even know this process existed?


Carey Johnston
Yeah, I found out about the 10X program from one of the GSA email listservs. I subscribed to a couple. I saw the open notice and I thought, Oh, this looks interesting. So I put together two or three sentences and made a submission.


Rob Trubia
And what inspired you to submit your particular idea? Maybe you can share with us a little bit about what that idea was.


Carey Johnston
Yeah. I work at the Environmental Protection Agency, and I I help states and EPA regions. We have ten regions convert paper forms to electronic forms. And these are really important for tracking noncompliance. And in particular, we're looking at noncompliance as it relates to sewer spills. So unfortunately, stuff happens and spills, whether it's through a blockage or a broken pipe and the sewage treatment plants need to report this noncompliance.


And for decades, these reports have come in on paper, and we're now converting that over to electronic reporting. Now, I thought the 10X program could help jump start some of our.


Rob Trubia
Okay. So take us through the process a little bit. That's great that you're learned about it now you're like, what do you do? How do you submit it? Did you make a phone call, send an email? How does it going?


Carey Johnston
Well, it's super easy. So 10X has a form and you really only need two or three sentences. They limit you as to the number of actual words or characters that you can use. And so really the first challenge is to boil down your submission to really an elevator pitch and to convey succinctly what you're trying to do and how 10X could help.


And then you type, you know, type in the text and hit submit. It’s that's simple.


Rob Trubia
Will, you get these, you get these submissions, you get them every day. Do you get them once a month? Do you look at them twice a year? When you first saw Carey submissions, how did you see it? How does that work?


Will Cahoe
Yeah. So we have typically one or two rounds of project funding, an evaluation each year. So that's the current season. Actually, this is our busy season. We are accepting ideas through our website between now and the end of the day on November 30th. And so after the 30th, what we're going to do is a bunch of us, the bigger us up 10x will all come to DC and we spend several days reading through these ideas, discussing every single one, grading them, thinking about what could happen if this was a wild success.


Really looking for potential. We look for ideas that align with our investment themes we look for ideas from, and I shouldn't say from agencies that we haven't worked with because we do not know who's submitting the ideas. We keep it totally anonymous. But should a problem spaces that we that we haven't heard about before because we're always trying to, you know, flex new muscles and look into new corners of the federal tech ecosystem that we don't know about.


I should say the evaluation panel, the folks who really decide, who whittle down. So 200 ideas down to the ten products that we're going to fund, it's a rotating group of folks. We really try to bring in fresh perspectives. We really don't want to sort of spin our wheels and just kind of exist within our own assumptions. We brought folks from other agencies, and something else we often do is we bring in a representative from the TTS Diversity Guild, and TTS is the Technology Transformation Services.


That's the parent organization of 10X within GSA, and they have a diversity guild, and the Diversity Guild is essentially a group of folks who are really passionate about making sure that our workforce and that the way that we operate is really fair to everyone and equitable, and that concerns of diversity, equity and inclusion are really highlighted throughout the organization.


And not only that, but throughout the external work that we do as well. So we always say, Hey, send us a representative, we can really bring that hat, it can really bring that lens to make sure that these ideas that we're evaluating because we don't have much to offer. Right. Like Carey mentioned, they're about three sentences long. So we bring in folks from, you know, other agencies, other other groups, and it's usually a few days of some.


I will say, positive, contentious conversation because folks get folks, you know, have feelings about these projects. And we can only choose so many to fund. And they're all risky at the beginning because we don't know much about them. And we are we're not experts. You know, we get ideas from the EPA, we get ideas from the Department of Education.


And, you know, we we don't know all the context. So we do the best we can with the short summaries, the ideas that we received from folks like Carey and all across the government. Well, let.


Rob Trubia
Me ask you a question about that, because Carey, you mentioned it as well. The submission of the initial submission is very short. You limit the amount of characters even. Why do you do that?


Will Cahoe
We do that because we don't want to turn off the Careys of the federal government. We want the creative civil servants to feel like they actually have a chance to get their ideas read and evaluated. And I think. And what do you think, Rob? The best the easiest way to turn off the Careys is to say, Hey, Cary, you can send an idea to 10x.


You need a project proposal, you need a budget, you need a team, you need deliverables, you need a contract in place, you need system requirements upfront. Gather all 40 of those pages and documentation, send it over, and we can make a lot happen. I think that that is a recipe for failure. And so we really want to keep the barrier for entry as low as we can.


And it seems like a simple ask, right? You know, put an idea in three sentences, but it can also be difficult because these are big meaty ideas and big problems that need solving.


Rob Trubia
No, I mean, I think that answers it well. And then you're talking about you get 200 ideas maybe, and you get the the higher ups in a room in DC and there are maybe all passionate about I really like this one. I really like this one. And you're whittling it down and is it is it specifically ten ideas a year?


Will Cahoe
It's not specifically ten ideas a year. It's usually ranges from say, 10 to 25, kind of depending on the budgetary situation and where other projects are going. And so I should say we have, you know, more than a dozen projects going on at any one time, and we never know how far projects are going to go in the lifecycle that our fund operates.


So it's we don't always know how much we're going to how many projects were going to be able to kickstart each year. So it's typically between ten and 25. Okay. At least at the phase one level. Yep.


Rob Trubia
And Cary, let me ask you, when did you find out that your idea was going to be acted on? Like this is one of the ideas we're going to take to the next step.


Carey Johnston
I think it was a couple of months. It wasn't that long. So as was mentioned, there was an open period. I made the submission and then I just kind of waited.


Rob Trubia
And so when you were told, Hey, Carey, we're we're looking into your idea, we're serious about it, we're going to take it to phase one. What kind of involvement do you have at that point? Is it just hands off for you, Carey, and then 10x with it or you become partner or how does that work?


Carey Johnston
Yeah, I would say that it was a it was a partnership. And I was very much involved as a subject matter expert where we kind of expanded on the idea, kind of fleshed it out co created that the proposal and, and really drilled down on the what you know what are we trying to do what's before we got to the how and and that was exciting.


Rob Trubia
That's pretty neat And I love the fact that you are partnering with I mean, you're the expert. You're the one who knows what the big problem is. You've got a lot of ideas for the solutions. You're going to the technical experts and the ones, quite honestly, with the dollars to, you know, make happen what you think could happen, that could really make a difference.


I'm curious. Will, can you take us a little bit through the funnel, the process? I think it's a very specific, one of the things that I think is very interesting about 10x is you really seem to start looking at some of these problems. Even once you decide we're going to we're going to really look into this, this is going to be one of the ones we’re accepting this year, very small dollar amount.


Like you're just going to just kind of poke a little bit and see if this thing is real. Are we really going to take this to phase two? Can you take us through the phases of a project?


Will Cahoe
I sure can. And that's exactly right. The reason we do this and this again, goes back to, you know, how can we bring in private sector practices into government to to get better at delivery for IT agencies. And one of the lessons that we learned is that not all ideas are going to work out. So don't have all your eggs in one basket, split up your investments over a series of possible enterprises and test each one a little bit, see if there's a there there.


And if not, do not be afraid to close them down end to end unpromising projects. And those are lessons that we have really, really taken to heart. So if you want a picture, a funnel, I'll sort of lead you through it. We have four phases of attacks. Project phase one literally begins, you know, right after Carey sends that message.


Excuse me, after Carey sends in the idea and we approve it, it goes from a three sentence hypothesis into a phase one project. And phase one is typically about two weeks and the goal of phase one is really just to see, is this a bad idea? Are there reasons why 10X should not be involved? And I should clarify, you know, not that it's a bad idea, but that this may not be a good idea for 10X to invest in as a project, right?


Sure. So it could be an excellent idea. Maybe it's just not a great fit for 10x. So things that we're looking for here, you know what? What what is going to suggest? It's a bad idea for this project to continue. One is that we're going to interview all the subject matter experts and then say this is a problem.


They're like, okay, sure, if you want to build another widget, great, that's not a problem, that I need to be solved. Maybe an action has a theory has been pursued in the past for ten different times, and it's always failed for the same reason. Maybe there is a regulatory hurdle in place that unless we can get that lifted, there is no way that this can be successful.


Any number of basically big red flags that say this isn't going to be a promising investment. And at the end of those, you know, two weeks at the end of this phase one, the project team who are internal at 10x, they're cross-functional technologists, researchers, designers, engineers, etc. At the end of those two weeks, they come back to 10X and they basically say, Here's what we found.


And either we recommend moving forward, there's enough here that we think this could be impactful and we recommend that 10X moves this into the next phase or they say, You know what? We did a quick glance and it feels like maybe there are more promising projects. It feels like maybe this isn't something that's going to be successful and we recommend closing down here.


And the reason we do that is because we want to close down unpromising projects as soon as we can. And something else to highlight here is most projects get a no inbetween these phases. Only about a third of projects are approved at any one phase. So if we're going to start off, you're going to see how bad I am at math here.


But if we start off the year of 20 projects in phase one, only seven of those are going to move on to phase two. Only two of those are going to move on to phase three, and we might only have one Phase four project for that whole year. Taking us back to the other part of the funnel, let me know if you're with me here.


Phase two is a little bit longer and each of these levels gets a little bit longer, a little higher dollar amount, a little more time, a little more focus, a little more attention from 10x. And then phase two, the idea is, okay, so it's not a bad idea for us to be involved here, but is it really a good idea?


Can we imagine a path to success? Do we have people who are excited to maybe work with us? Do we have we identified the Careys? Have we identified the champions within agencies who are going to help us make room for any solution? Same process at the end of phase two team comes back and makes a recommendation. For the sake of this conversation, I will say that it's a yes and we decided to move the project into phase three.


This is the development phase. This is when we bring on the heavy duty engineering. And really the goal of phase three is to say at the end of it, are we solving a problem for someone? Are we solving a problem for someone? Is anyone going to use this? And the same process, if this is a solution that looks like it could scale widely, then it looks like it could continue to thrive and solve more problems for more users outside of 10X, then we can move to phase four, which is the scale phase there.


The goal really is to get something alive and thriving and with a home that makes sense. Host 10x And what I want to highlight here is that we are not in the business of long term software ownership and maintenance. We don't want to own the platforms that we build. We are not territorial with our investments. We want the things we build to live and thrive, and we will advocate for the work that we fund to continue wherever makes the most sense.


For example, EPA, that's a great example.


Rob Trubia
So you really your whole group's really acting like it's got a giant investment portfolio and we're trying to figure out where to put our investments. And where are we going to test them. And if they don't turn out to be the best value for for our dollar, then you kind of shut it down.


Will Cahoe
That's exactly right. Quick validation, Closed down on promising projects, save money for the big home runs.


Rob Trubia
So, Carey, how how many phases did you get through?


Carey Johnston
Feels like and I always know that I got so I submitted my idea. I call it step zero. I was selected for phase one, and then that's where we refined the the ideas and we kind of got the kind of of the what and then move to phase two where we spent, I want to say, like six months or more really working with the 10x staff, coming up with really something that something that really works for EPA.


And what I mean is at the end of phase two, even though I didn't go to phase three, we EPA got something out of the project out of the 10X process. So it's I wouldn't I wouldn't say, you know, a success is going through all of all four phases. Successes is coming out of the 10X process with something that you could work from.


And that's exactly what we got at EPA.


Rob Trubia
So it's really a little bit of the experience. And then it also sounds like all the things that you have to do to go through phase one and phase two and the partnership. Maybe you're starting to develop some of your own solutions and being able to. Did EPA take it even though it didn't go past phase two? Did EPA take some of that knowledge, some of that investigation, some of the some of the problem solving and be able to use that to its advantage?


Carey Johnston
Yes, definitely. We we were able to take the deliverables from the 10x process in particular. We were looking at how best to display and visualize and explore the the sewer spill data for the public. And we're using the wireframes and and the website design ideas that came out of the tax process to jumpstart our own website development through our platform called Echo.


And that’s echo.epa.gov, great plug.


Rob Trubia
Perfect. So just going through those phases really helped you help your team to develop solutions. And and I think it doesn't sound like you're discouraged. I mean, you didn't get to phase three, but doesn't sound like you were discouraged. You're glad you made your submission.


Carey Johnston
Oh, very glad. And I think we we got a lot out of the independent and helpful nature of the 10x team. And we also, as I said, got deliverables, the project, the website design and wireframe ideas that helped jumpstart our work. And yeah, it was a very it was a very positive experience.


Rob Trubia
So Will let me ask you. So yes, you only went to phase two, but I want to say only because it sounds like a lot of benefit a lot of benefit from even going that far. Can you share with us a project that went to phase three or four? What are some examples of some ideas that civil servants have submitted?


10x has jumped on them and took them all the way through phase four, maybe one or two. That said, and then we can feel the impact that, you know, we've really improved delivery services for our public. We've made a better engagement with the public for the government because of 10x what are some success stories?


Will Cahoe
I'll start with maybe one of the original success stories here, so I'll take us back to when was this maybe 2015, 2016, at a very early iteration of 10x where the pitching did not happen over a submission form to our website. It happened in person and back then that was sort of modeled after, you know, some of those television shows where entrepreneurs pitch ideas in front of investors.


That's kind of how we did it. And one day during one of these sessions, we had a civil servant walk into the room and she had a stack of papers and she taped all of the papers up on the walls of the room and asked the evaluation panel, What do you notice? And what they were were printed screenshots of all different kinds of government websites.


And what everyone noticed is that there was not particular consistency across a large ranges of fields, right? So some of these websites looked like, you know, maybe they were from the mid-nineties, some looked like they were modern and fresh and were sort of a product of good agile processes. Some looked like they were very secure and trustworthy, some looked like they would, you know, break your mother's back  if you stepped on it.


And some looked like they were written in plain English and some looked like they were designed exclusively for lawyers or policy folks to actually understand the acronyms and the other things. And so her idea was this could cause harm. This sort of this jumbled kind of inconsistent approach could be bad. Say, or someone who has an intellectual disability trying to find some kind of government service, having to navigate essentially different government websites and different applications and all kinds of different things.


Yeah. You know what if you were a newcomer to the United States and English wasn't your first language, and how were you ever going to successfully interact with something that you know is written as if it's like a a court document or a regulation? And the idea that this person had was can we just provide some kind of shared tools, shared modern resources for federal web managers all across the government to use how they see fit.


Right. All the web managers, they know, the programs they work for. They know the websites, they know their audiences. So we're going to sort of decentralize. We're going to make the resources and the tools operate them centrally, but everyone else is going to be able to use them however they need. And what this project turned into is the U.S. web design system, and that went through all four phases of 10X, and that's a success, I think, because it continues to evolve and deliver value.


Rob Trubia
I love that. And let me ask you this, Will are you accepting ideas from our civil servants? Any idea or is there like a theme each year, What are you trying to do? Just share with us a little bit about how you kind of couch those. I mean, there's subject matter experts in each different ideas. How does it work?


Will Cahoe
Sure. So we do choose investment themes each year. And I should say that aligning an idea, you know, if you're a federal employee thinking, oh, this, this 10x thing is kind of cool, will convince me that maybe this is worth my time so you don't have to align with one of our investment priorities. Any idea that you have, you can submit.


We will read it and evaluate it. But this year in particular, we're building on some emerging themes that we've had over the past couple of years. So one of our priority themes this year is equity and delivery. And really what that means is we are looking for ideas for how the federal government can use technology in a way that's going to right a wrong or a way that's going to bring a little more fairness and equity to public service.


The second investment theme we have is reimagining public engagement. The reason we chose this theme is because and this is this speaks to how 10x has changed over the years. So 10X is funded out of the Federal Citizen Services Fund, and for a few years we were very open and enthusiastic about doing projects that were more sort of back end focused, that were less visual, that were more for agencies.


And then something we that was pointed out to us along the way is, you know, I don't forget the C, don't forget the citizen and the Federal Citizen Services Fund. And we were encouraged to really look at public facing technology and things that the public will use or directly benefit from. And so we kind of ran with that.




And ever since then, we're developing a portfolio of projects that really try to help folks, help the government reimagine what it means to interact with the public. And one example I'll give that this is another success story. I would I would say for 10X, a project that went through Phase four is notified.gov, which is a new product offering of GSA.


And the idea there is to empower federal agencies to notify their constituents of, you know, hey, your application is partway through or hey, there's, you know, a sewer spill in in your area or any number of things. So a way that the government and the public can interact that's modern and that's, you know, not not going in person somewhere, not dealing with a really user unfriendly kind of digital experience.


So those are the types of ideas, you know, I hope I didn't over explain that, but basically projects that are public facing and that have equity as a very founding principle.


Rob Trubia
I read you're looking for moonshot ideas. It's sort of like that second theme potentially, or maybe you're always looking for Moonshot ideas. What's a moonshot idea? Can you give us an example of a moonshot that even it never made it to phase one? I'm curious about some of the submissions you get.


Will Cahoe
Notably, and thank you so much. It is something that I forgot to mention, which is and for all you feds out there listening in, we want your moonshot ideas like take us, take us to the moon. Let's solve the hardest problems in government. Let's seize the biggest opportunities. Let's make that future that we want to imagine really happen.


So I'm just going to sort of I'm going to I'm going to take my own advice and I'm just going to kind of throw some moonshot ideas out there, Rob. And these are not necessarily ones that we have received. Let's imagine a world where exchanging data between agencies, it's not Excel sheets anymore, No more, no more email attachments, done, something completely different.


That idea is animating a project that we currently have going called Deploying Privacy Enhancing Technology. And basically the idea is can these this field of emerging technologies out in the academic and out in the private sector be used in a way where you can learn from a dataset without actually accessing that data at all and that if something if that could scale widely, that is something that can just totally transform how government does data, period.


Another moonshot idea this one also happened is one account for all. What if I could just have one place where from where I can access a lot of government services so I can I don't have to have 14 accounts on on different government websites. And that came out of login.gov, which was also an early 10x investment.


Rob Trubia
Yeah, you're looking for a lot of ideas and you've got a deadline coming up November 30th. Carey, what advice or encouragement would you share based on your experience in submitting an idea to 10x?


Carey Johnston
Yeah, to review the solicitation to see if there are any things to really boil down your problem, to really sell it. I mean, I used the phrase elevator pitch, and I think that's that's the way you got to think. It's not some big long problem statement. You got to really explain what what the problem is and how 10x might be able to help.
Rob Trubia
Thank you. That's helpful. I think there's a lot of civil servants out there that are listening to this. I hope they take the 5 minutes it takes to to submit an idea. Will, here's your here's your chance for a pitch remind on November 30th. Where do they go? Or how do they submit? This is your opportunity.


Will Cahoe
All right, listen up. Day or night, you can submit an idea through our website to 10x.gsa.gov. Like, it's only got to be three sentences. There's even a fun template on there to sort of help you put your big idea into a thousand characters. Just hit that submit button. Don't be afraid to reach out. For those of you who were like, Oh, you know, that sounds interesting.


I'm kind of interested, but where do I go from here? We offer workshops and these are fun, lightweight. They can be virtual only 45 to 60 minutes. I'm going to come into your agency, and sit with you and your colleagues virtually. And we're going to talk about what you do on a day to day basis.


And we're going to help figure out what the really big problems and opportunities are that you and your agency can take advantage of, and that 10x can help you with. So those are we're happy to schedule those between now and the end of November. Anyone just wants to learn more, talk more, reach out. Our email is 10x@gsa.gov


Go out and submit ideas folks believe that your idea can make an impact. We have proven that that's the case.


Rob Trubia
Those civil servants out there, there's no excuse to not put your submission in. Go ahead and give it a shot. You have nothing to lose and it will only take you a couple of minutes. Cary, thank you for your time. Will thank you for your time. I hope you both have a great rest of your day and 10x,


check it out. Well, there you have it my fellow federal employees, you've just learned how to take 3 minutes to submit an idea that just might change the lives of millions of Americans. There's no requirement for supervisor approval. And if your submission moves forward, 10X promises not to add a thing to your to do list. So be sure to get over to 10X.gsa.gov.


You've got nothing to lose. Will Cahoe, Carey Johnston, thank you both for your time. I've really enjoyed this conversation. 10X truly embodies everything GSA is all about, and maybe like me, you had no idea that GSA did that. In our next episode, we'll find out how GSA is supporting tribal nations. If you've enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe to GSA does that.


And for more information, visit GSA.gov/podcast. Or to suggest a topic or guest, send us an email at gsa doesthat@gsa.gov. I'm your host Rob Trubia our executive producer is the one and only Max Stempera GSA Does That!? is a production of the U.S. General Services Administration Office of Strategic Communication. Thanks for listening.