Advancing Equity

In episode 2 of Season 2 "GSA Does That!?" podcast explores GSA's commitment to equity and opportunity for HBCUs, outlining strategies to enhance representation and collaboration. Highlighting the administration's efforts to recruit from HBCUs and streamline their access to federal contracts, the episode features insights from GSA’s Krystal Brumfield and Dr. El-Dweik of Alabama A&M. It emphasizes the ongoing work to integrate HBCU talent into federal service and foster a more inclusive future.

Want to know more?

If you're interested in learning more about how GSA is offering support for HBCUs, check out the resources below:

• GSA's support for HBCUs

"GSA Does That!?" is the U.S. General Services Administration's first agency-wide podcast, offering listeners an inside look into how GSA and its partners benefit the American people. Hosted by Rob Trubia, the podcast features interviews with GSA leaders, experts, partners, and customers, covering topics such as federal real estate, acquisitions, and technology. The title reflects many's surprise at the scope of GSA's impact. At the same time, the artwork pays homage to President Harry S. Truman, who established GSA in 1949 to improve government efficiency and save taxpayer money. Whether you're a policy wonk or just curious about government operations, you can join the listener community.

For more information about the show visit, gsa.gov/podcast.

Transcript

Rob Trubia

Welcome to GSA Does That!? the podcast that uncovers the stories behind the federal agency delivering effective and efficient government. I'm your host, Rob Trubia. And in episode two of our second season, we're exploring the vital theme of advancing equity and opportunity as we discuss how GSA is strengthening ties with our nation's historically black colleges and universities, as well as other minority serving institutions.

In an era where expanding opportunities for HBCUs is a top administration priority. We'll learn about how GSA is implementing strategies to ensure more equitable representation and advancement inside the agency. Our first guest today is Krystal Brumfield, associate administrator and chief acquisition officer at GSA. We'll hear her insights on the president's executive order, which emphasizes equity excellence and economic opportunity through HBCUs.

Krystal will unpack GSA's approaches to recruitment and how GSA is engaging with students and alum from these institutions to bring diverse talents into federal service. We'll also discuss the challenges faced by HBCUs in navigating the complexities of the multiple award schedule and the support mechanisms GSA has in place to ease the process. And to help shed light on the process, we have with us today, Dr. Dweik, representing Alabama A&M, an HBCU that has successfully got on schedule at GSA.

Dr. El-Dweik experience and aspirations for furthering HBCU participation in government contracting is sure to be insightful and inspiring. You're in for a great discussion that celebrates progress, addresses challenges and outlines a future where equity and opportunity walk hand-in-hand. This is GSA Does That!?. And remember, this podcast is available on all major platforms. So please be sure to subscribe.

For more information about this episode and others, visit us online at gsa.gov/podcast. Hi Krystal, Thank you so much for taking the time to be with us today. Before we really get started, I wondered if you might share a little bit about yourself, where you grew up and maybe where you went to college.

Krystal Brumfield

Absolutely. Thanks, Rob. First of all, thanks for the opportunity. It's always a pleasure to talk about something that I'm super passionate about today, which is historically black colleges and universities. I grew up in a small town in southeast Louisiana. As a part of my family's legacy, I pretty much had no choice other than going to college at Southern University, where I received my undergraduate degree and then decided to take it a step further and receive a law degree at the Southern University Law Center.

One of the things that attracted me to Southern is that before you graduate University, you’re required to do community service, which is really a part of the fabric of my being since middle school and high school. And so that's one of the things that we pride ourselves on is really making sure we're giving back to the community. That's one of the reasons why.

Another reason why I went to Southern University.

Rob Trubia

Well, fast forwarding to what you're doing now. What does your role at GSA entail? And what are you focused on these days?

Krystal Brumfield

Wow. Well, a little bit of everything. I serve as the associate administrator for a government wide policy. And in that role, it really is. It involves, you know, federal high performance, buildings, I.T. policy, acquisition policy, you name it. But in those roles, I am also involved in a lot of ancillary things. And HBCUs happen to be one I was named a couple of years ago to be the senior executive to lead the agency's HBCU initiative.

And so really proud of the work that we've accomplished in the last two years. There are in some of the other areas of really helping propel the agency forward with regards to underserved communities and helping minorities across the board. Also co-chair, the agency's equity team. And so we've done a lot of work building the agency's equity plan and making sure that we're taking strides to create more opportunities for underserved communities, but also breaking down those barriers for those communities.

So make sure that it's a whole of agency approach and that we're getting every office involved in the work that we're doing towards diversity equity, inclusion in assessable.

Rob Trubia

Right. And then as we get to HBCUs and we talk about the President's executive order out there that says, hey, we're going to focus on equity excellence and economic opportunity through HBCUs. And I’d just love to hear your take on that. Why do you think it's still crucial today in today's context?

Krystal Brumfield

Well, you know, HBCUs were created for the simple reason that we didn't have any other options. Minorities, black students in particular, were not given opportunities to get undergraduate degrees or graduate degrees from predominantly white institutions. And so for that reason, we had to create our own institutions of higher learning. And because of that, we see a great hemisphere of opportunities in the federal marketplace that these universities don't necessarily think about, but they definitely don't have an opportunity to take advantage of.

And so our focus at GSA isn't on grants. It's all about contracting and how do we open up the floodgates so that as many populations can take advantage of this federal marketplace.

Rob Trubia

So how's GSA going about that? How are they fostering these connections with you know, HBCUs, what's the goals in mind? You talked about contracting. Maybe you can talk a little more about it.

Krystal Brumfield

Sure. So first of all, we started an interagency, right. And as a part of that, we are a member of this interagency group with many different other agencies. And so as a part of that, we have to develop an agency action plan. And so we can't tackle that alone. It is an enterprise approach in a part of that is really building out a team of individuals that really represent all of the offices or as many offices as possible at GSA.

And so what we've done is we've created a group of individuals to really help us build out things in the area of procurement, of recruitment, of policy, to make sure that we're creating opportunities for our HBCUs to get an opportunity for donated property, for instance. And so our big initiatives and goals around our street strategic plan are around three things.

One is making sure that we're creating opportunities for HBCU to get on the multiple awards schedule, right? Many of them don't understand government contracting, don't know about the process. So there's an education and training component to help build the individuals knowledge that universities, knowledge about MAS. The second is, once they get on MAS, what do we do with it?

And so we work with, OSDBU to help provide education and training for marketing our products and services, or help them to market their products and services on MAS. And then the third big bucket really is around recruitment. How do we create a pipeline for students and alumni to opportunities in the federal government? And so we've done a lot of work around making sure that we are intentional about recruiting at HBCUs and HBCU fairs, career fairs, whether that be at their university or in the region or at the White House's HBCU week in the fall.

So those are the things that we're focused on, laser focused on in making sure that we are creating as much opportunity for HBCUs as possible.

Rob Trubia

That's helpful to understand. And I want to get more into all of it, really, particularly the multiple award schedule. Well, before we do that, I just want to touch a little more on the recruiting. When you go to these schools, like what is GSA specifically doing to make these connections, to make sure that students understand what opportunities exist for them?

And I'm curious what the reaction is. What do they think about federal service? Is that something that students on these campuses are thinking about?

Krystal Brumfield

So it's not always their first thought, Rob. In fact, you know, it wasn't mine. But, you know, one of the good things about GSA is that we have to send out representatives, right, for people who were once in those student shoes. And so one of the things that we've done recently was establish our first HBCU alum, brand ambassador pool, where we just did a bunch of outreach to the agency staff to say, Hey, if you are interested in helping us to go back to a university in HBCU to help us recruit and to spread the message so that you can kind of explain your pathway into a federal service, then those are the people that

we want. And so we got a ton of individuals who raised their hand to say, yes, I'll be one of the ambassadors. And so we've done that and we've had some success at it so far. But we have a ways to go and we're excited about the path ahead.

Rob Trubia

That's neat. And I'm curious like, what do you think they're hearing from these young people today when they think about federal service or where they think or what do you think they have that special that they can offer that maybe, you know, some others can't? And what is the right qualities that you need to bring to federal service, particularly from these types of schools?

Krystal Brumfield

So I mentioned earlier that a part of my in order to graduate, I had to do community service. So, you know, that's not far from what you have to do when you're a federal employee. Right. It's about customer service is about being a public servant. Right. And that's what those are the skills, the towns, the traits, really, that you build at HBCUs as you learn to care about the public.

You learn to give back to your community. And those are some of the things that we look for. We're looking and we're recruiting students at HBCUs. They are skills that they already have. They are traits and characteristics that they are learning and nurturing have been groomed at HBCUs. So those are some of the sort of things that we're looking for.

But when we talked to them, you know, sometimes they haven't or sometimes they have a parent or an odd or an uncle or grandparent who is already working in federal service. And so that makes it easier. But the things that we try to impress upon them is that the opportunities are truly endless and that the benefits are great.

But, you know, really to take what they learn at school, it's a really develop it that that's what the federal government can do. Develop what you learned into a career, but also make that a pathway into an analyst role of opportunities whether that be at GSA. In your focus on buildings or if you want to be in federal contracting or in H.R., there's a little bit for everyone and you don't have to necessarily know where the end of the road is when you're starting out.

This is just the pathway, if you will, into getting to the end.

Rob Trubia

So if I'm understanding you correctly, you're saying that HBCUs really foster this culture of service.

Krystal Brumfield

Absolutely.

Rob Trubia

So if we've got some listeners that are maybe very interested in what you're saying. So, you know, I might want to check this out. What are you telling them? How do you find out about these jobs?

Krystal Brumfield

Sure. So a simple couple of ways that you can get to the information about the jobs and we try to make it easy for you Rob. So what we did in the last few months is we created a one stop page on our Website, which is GSA.gov/msis, you'll find a column where it's all of that information about opportunities to employment at GSA, whether they be through internship or if it'd be for someone who is a graduate.

There are opportunities that are listed there that will link you to other pages to learn about opportunities at GSA. The other way that you can find out about opportunities to work in the federal government is, of course, usajobs.gov. That leads you to two opportunities through our pathways program and to other programs, internship programs like 360 where you can get more information.

We have info sessions all the time that talks about what it is like to work at GSA. And so you can get a plethora of information just by visiting our website or going to usajobs.gov. But at any of those places, you'll find information about how to apply to opportunities at our agency.

Rob Trubia

Well, that's great. Super helpful and seems pretty simple. I want to switch our focus to multiple award schedules. First of all, can you just give me a quick like people like, what is that? I don't know what that is. What is a multiple award schedule? And then why do we care? How is that connected to HBCUs?

Krystal Brumfield

Sure. So the multiple award schedule is similar to getting a being able to sell on a platform like Amazon. Right. And so you might have different aisle and hours for I.T and isle for personal professional services and isle for HR Services, whatever the case may be. We have these different isles through a program or platform called the multiple award schedule or the federal award schedule, which is a procurement vehicle that not only the federal government uses and not just GSA, but other agencies use, but also state and local governments and tribal entities and use it as well to get to a certain service or product that you're selling.

And you're already done all the work on the front end of negotiating what the price or the rate is. And it's just a simple, easy tool to use more HBCUs and the light to sell their goods or services to the federal government. And so that's why we're always promoting MAS is because it's the premier way to do business with the federal government.

So, I mean, over the last couple of years, you know, we've leaned in a whole lot on how do we do outreach and engagement still to be used across the country. And many of them have indicated that they have challenges to their capacity, which includes infrastructure and manpower when it comes to doing work for the Federal government. And with regards to that, we want to we want to make sure that it's an easy road to doing that.

And that roadway that we've discovered is the path, the lever's least resistance is our multiple or award schedule. So a song sounds like it's a daunting task, but it really is. It we've created a pathway to getting there and to make it really easy for for HBCUs first, of course, I mentioned that we have education and training and we tend to conduct both in-person and virtual training and industry days so that we can help universities increase their capacity and knowledge in federal contracting and the second way.

And the really, truly the most innovative step that we've created so far is by creating an EASE pilot and what this is, it stands for effectively awarding and streamlining e offers, which really provides a front end concierge style assistance to qualified HBCUs that are interested in pursuing a MAS. And this really just allows us to provide them with one on one guidance and assistance to prepare, prepare them to go for a qualified pre-submission package.

And so this EASE program that we develop with our partners in FAS, it typically takes about 12 months to go through the process from beginning to the award. Well, they've gotten it down to 15 days in our fastest and our fastest is we've done it in 12 days.

Rob Trubia

My goodness, from a year to 12 days. That’s incredible. So if you're an HBCU listening out there and they're going, hey, you know what I really want to get in on this is, are you pretty confident that you can, you know, we've got everything in place. GSA has got everything in place to make it happen for them.

Krystal Brumfield

Absolutely. Absolutely. With confidence. We've built this within and designed this with them in mind. And so this is built for HBCUs. And so we have full confidence that it works. And all they have to do is just follow the plan that we laid out.

Rob Trubia

So what type of services or products are these universities and colleges offering? They're sitting out, they're going out. I'd love to get in on this. That sounds exciting. Sounds great. A great opportunity. But what do I have to offer? What our universities have to offer GSA or the federal government as a whole?

Krystal Brumfield

The federal government is buying a lot of research and development. You know, we are trying to figure things out. We need students who are innovative and help us to do research when in fact, one of our MAS award holders just received a contract last year to provide a data scientist to help the federal government at NASA do some research.

Anything in applied science. We're looking at research in those areas. HHSs, NIHs, and other agencies are really trying to look forward and think about what's ahead. And so we need people who can help us apply these critical skills to really develop technology and innovation for the federal government. And so it's from soup to nuts, anything around manufacturing chips and helping with sustainability all the way to the research in the development of those things.

Rob Trubia

Yeah, the school that's working with NASA, that's quite the success story there. Can you share with us any details on that? What school is it?

Krystal Brumfield

Alabama A&M is one of the two schools that's on MAS along with Fayetteville State University. And we have worked with them to do that with Alabama and NC get their first prime contract award right around the prime. So that's key with NASA last year. And so there's lots of runway ahead for them. We've extended their MAS contract to 2039.

And so they they've got a long runway ahead and they won't they don't have to worry about being kicked out of MAS because they're years and years ahead for them to compete, to fine tune, to get to get things right, to do it better and bigger year after year after year with respect to their their respective schedules. And so we're super excited about the barriers again, about breaking down the barriers that we have had in place for these HBCUs to be more successful in the future.

Rob Trubia

So that contract, that MAS contract and you said it goes that one goes to 2039, this basically opens up the door. So business can be done very, very easily between the government and the university. Do I understand that correctly?

Krystal Brumfield

Absolutely. So the thing that we want HBCUs to know is that we're open for business, and that means that we are reducing the barriers. But also creating them with opportunities to be successful. And we've done it in a number of ways and are looking at doing it in more ways by establishing the training and education both online and virtual, for them to to to get the information that they need to also match, meet and connect them with other other agencies so that the agency knows the capability of the university.

And the agency can also share what they are looking to buy. And so a couple weeks ago we hosted for the first time a government wide a federal funding forum. Well, we had agencies and we had HBCUs from across the country to come into GSA. We were the host, along with the White House, to host a two day forum to share information about opportunities in federal government and for those HBCUs to talk about how were they able to get on schedule, how do you market to agencies and for agencies to hear directly from the HBCUs about the technologies that they're developing, about the research that they're doing in the capabilities of their university and their students?

Rob Trubia

I really want to get Alabama A&M on the line. Who am I going to be talking to at Alabama A&M if I want to talk about this NASA contract?

Krystal Brumfield

So you'll talk to Dr. El-Dweik. Dr. El-Dweik has been the person that we've been working with out of the president's office now for the last two years. He's done amazing work in leading the research for the university and helping them to get their first prime contract, a professional, but also a person who cares a lot about the students.

Right. And the work that the students and the innovation that they can bring to the table. So he's the best person to talk about our relationship, right, between GSA and the university and how it has benefited the university in how it has potential to benefit the university even greater.

Rob Trubia

Well, with your permission, I'll tell him. You. You gave me his number.

Krystal Brumfield

So please do. All right.

Rob Trubia

Well, Krystal, thank you so much for your time. This has been very interesting, very insightful, and I hope very helpful to the universities and colleges out there. You know, HBCUs have a ton to offer. They have a ton of products and services, like you said that the government is buying. We're open for business and we want them to be a part of it.

And I think what you've laid out here could really play on some seeds and do some really positive things.

Krystal Brumfield

Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure. Appreciate the opportunity. If you ever want to talk about HBCUs again, please call me back. I'd be happy to do it.

Rob Trubia

We will. I hope you have a great rest of your day.

Krystal Brumfield

Thank you so much.

Rob Trubia

Well, we have taken Krystal’s recommendation. We’ve gotten a hold of Dr. Dweik. We’ve got him on the line now. He’s on the phone in his car but I think we’ve got a pretty good connection.

Dr. El-Dweik, thank you for joining us today. It's a real honor to have you on the podcast, sir.

Dr. El-Dweik

Well, thank you. Thank you for the invitation, and I'm happy to be on the podcast.

Rob Trubia

Well, we appreciate it. You know, after my conversation with Krystal, it was really clear we needed you on the show. So thank you for accepting our invitation. I am pretty excited to hear about the work you're doing over at Alabama A&M and learn a little more about you, sir. So maybe you could share your role at the university and what you're working on.

Dr. El-Dweik

Sure. I'm the vice president of Research and Economic Development at the Alabama Agricultural Mechanical University. And I serve under my division. I have a AAMU Rise Foundation at the Rise Foundation stands for research and innovation, science and engineering. And that's the foundation that has the GSA Schedule.

Rob Trubia

Alabama A&M is just one of just a handful of HBCUs currently on a multiple award schedule with GSA. Can you tell me a little bit about how it happened? How did you get on schedule?

Dr. El-Dweik

Sure, so it's really came from our leadership. I would call that a great opportunity for our university under the contracting arm to add the GSA Schedule.

Rob Trubia

Well, Dr. El-Dweik, what are the goods and services that A&M is on schedule to provide the federal government?

Dr. El-Dweik

So we focus right now on professionals, but mostly under engineering. So we have the capability and also the capacity under engineering, different types of engineering, whether it is computer engineering, mechanical engineering, civil engineering, electrical engineering. So we provide a wide range of services under engineering and this is where our GSA Schedule ius focusing right now.

Rob Trubia

So because you're on a multiple award schedule your your professors, your faculty with this expertise can see what an agency like NASA's looking for and you can put in a bid. You could say we can do that. We have that expertise. We'd like an opportunity.

Dr. El-Dweik

Absolutely.

Rob Trubia

So other universities that are listening to this podcast are going, Hey, we want to get on a multiple award schedule. What did it take for you to get on that schedule? Do you know? Were you involved in that?

Dr. El-Dweik

I was involved when they were doing the reporting? But my understanding again, from our team, when they adopted that, do you get what they really took a lot of time and effort to put the documentation together. So to make sure that they fulfill all the requirements from GSA  so that we have the ability to bid on a project that required GSA schedule of course once we submit the application and all the requirements.

Well, there are other requirements that we have to abide with along the way as long as we have an active GSA Schedule to maintain it. So, so definitely it worked out so, but it also required, you know, some work behind it. But I can tell you it is rewarding.

Rob Trubia

Yeah. I'm curious what benefits you're starting to see. What's been the impact for A&M?

Dr. El-Dweik

Yeah, it's really been impactful because many of those companies or large, large companies that well, some of the federal agencies they work GSA’s schedule most of the time. And if we don't have that GSA schedule, then that becomes a challenge for us to enter into some of those opportunities. That’s why on GSA schedule And we start to see all the other benefits so that we start to look at other agencies that they look for other services that you know GSA schedule and now we're looking into expanding our activity.

So we're not only offering engineering, but we're expanding other areas such as agriculture, education, and business. So now we're adding more to it our GSA schedule

Rob Trubia

Yeah, it sounds like it's not unlike other businesses where you get your foot in the door. You do a good job for that company that you're working with and all of a sudden there's all these other opportunities and they're asking you to do more.

Dr. El-Dweik

That's right. That's right. So it is very rewarding.

Rob Trubia

Yeah, that's great. Well, you know as well as I do that the relationship between academia and government can be a little complex at times. What encourages you about the increased collaboration between HBCUs and government agencies?

Dr. El-Dweik

Well, I'll tell you, without really that top member from GSA, they will come and mentor us about how to maintain our GSA schedule, how we can benefit from GSA schedule, but hopefully the opportunity for us with other agencies to let them know that we have that capability and we have that scheudle. And that would open more opportunities for Alabama A&M University.

Rob Trubia

Have you been sharing, you know, what you've learned with other HBCUs, you know, other colleagues in academia?

Dr. El-Dweik

Absolutely. I actually think that the event that we had two weeks ago at GSA, I'm working with two other HBCUs and helping them out to see how they can initiate talk about activities under GSA schedule.

Rob Trubia

Yeah, that's great. Does it feel a little bit like they're like, Wow, we never even thought about this. This is a whole new avenue, new revenue stream. We never even thought it would just look too complex, too difficult to get it to be working in contract with the government.

Dr. El-Dweik

It’s absolutely like this. So and for us, again, another stream of revenue that ought to help with our mission at the university. So our mission is all about it around, around or focused on our bringing resources to our students. So having that resource, the GSA schedule that it would allow and what it did for us to get our contract, that resource and that revenue to our students so we can hire students.

And this is another thing all our contracts that we work on. Students are a part of the contract, we hired them to work on the contract.

Rob Trubia

Yeah. I wonder if this also enlightened your students and the idea of serving in federal government with their particular degrees. Have you heard any students talking about that?

Dr. El-Dweik

Yeah. That open also the opportunity for them to understand the different federal agencies and the requirements that they have. And actually we have few students that are involved in working on contract to apply to the agency because they were interested in the work that they're doing under contract and they realized that yes, I can apply that you know you're not.

And then they work with the recruitment process.

Rob Trubia

Well, as we wrap up, Dr. El-Dweik, I'm curious, what can GSA do further to assist your university and other HBCUs that are particularly interested in following in your footsteps, exploring government contracting opportunities? What can GSA do to make this a little bit easier?

Dr. El-Dweik

Right now, Alabama A&M, I think we have a good basis, and GSA has helped us to strengthen our foundation. So right now we're looking for more corporate, the more opportunity that it would allow to increase our revenue. One thing that I can tell would you our revenue from last year has increased from 22 to 23, increased by 54%.

So if I can continue on that trajectory and continue to gain more opportunities and awards and contracts, that will allow me to hire more and also bring more students to that operations. So all I'm looking for right now is to increase my activities in the contracts. I'm looking for contracting opportunities.

Rob Trubia

Yeah, it sounds like this just really opens up a treasure trove of opportunity for professors. Now we're talking students and they were talking about new students and then future federal employees. It's just, you know, a win everywhere we look, that's fantastic. Well, Dr. El-Dweik, we really appreciate your time. Thanks for talking to us. Thanks for sharing what's happening at A&M. It’s very exciting what you're doing at your university. Clearly it's serving and benefiting the federal government, all of us, and we're excited about what's going on. This is neat and I hope this is an encouraging conversation and interview for others to hear and follow in the footsteps of Alabama A&M, where that's what our goal is. That's we're hoping for more partnerships with GSA in HBCUs and Alabama A&M is a fantastic example.

So thank you so much, sir.

Dr. El-Dweik

Well, thank you. Thank you. And I want to express my deep appreciation to every member of GSA who really has been there to help out, throughout our journey and mentor us and helping us and guiding us to getting more opportunity.

Rob Trubia

Well sir thank you for saying that. I'm sure everyone appreciates hearing that very much. That's very rewarding to hear, sir. I hope you have a great guest today. Thank you again for your time.

Dr. El-Dweik

You too. You too. Thank you. Thank you.

Rob Trubia

As we wrap up, this episode of GSA Does That!? I want to thank our guests, Krystal Brumfield and Dr. El-Dweik. Krystal, thank you for laying out the roadmap on just how GSA is turning the administration's goals into reality. And Dr. De-Weik, thank you for taking the time to share with us how Alabama A&M is benefiting from its connection with GSA and how your university is making us a stronger country.

Progress is being made, but we still have a lot of work ahead. The partnerships between GSA and HBCUs is not just about contracts and recruitment. It's about building stronger universities and a more diverse federal workforce. In our next episode, we're taking a unique approach by featuring conversations with three remarkable women serving at GSA. We'll hear about their road to a federal career exploring the past.

They've taken the obstacles they've encountered as women and the wisdom they wish to share with others. Be sure to tune in to this special episode and thank you for tuning into GSA Does That!? Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast on your favorite platform and consider sharing this episode with friends and colleagues to suggest a topic or guest.

Drop us an email at gsadoesthat@gsa.gov. I'm Rob Trubia, joined by our executive producer, Max Stempora. This episode was brought to you by the General Services Administration Office of Strategic Communication. I hope you have a great rest of your day.