Bridging Communities: GSA's Good Neighbor Program

In episode 5 of GSA Does That!?, we explore the impact of the Good Neighbor Program, enhanced by a $24 million infusion from the Inflation Reduction Act. Frank Giblin from GSA discusses the strategic application of these funds and the core mission of the program. Additionally, Professor Georgeen Theodore from the New Jersey Institute of Technology shares how her urban planning students are collaborating with GSA to design environmentally sustainable federal spaces.

Want to know more?

Are you looking for more information about the Good Neighbor Program? Check out the resources below!

• Good Neighbor Program | GSA
• General Services Administration announces $23.8 million for projects to improve federal facilities and benefit local communities as part of President Biden’s Investing in America agenda

"GSA Does That!?" is the U.S. General Services Administration's first agency-wide podcast, offering listeners an inside look into how GSA and its partners benefit the American people. Hosted by Rob Trubia, the podcast features interviews with GSA leaders, experts, partners, and customers, covering topics such as federal real estate, acquisitions, and technology. The title reflects many's surprise at the scope of GSA's impact. At the same time, the artwork pays homage to President Harry S. Truman, who established GSA in 1949 to improve government efficiency and save taxpayer money. Whether you're a policy wonk or just curious about government operations, you can join the listener community.

For more information about the show visit, gsa.gov/podcast.

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction
• 1:22 Interview with Frank Giblin
• 22:26 Interview with Georgeen Theodore

Transcript

Rob Trubia
Welcome to the podcast that's working each episode to uncover the stories behind the federal agency delivering effective and efficient government. I'm your host, Rob Trubia, and you're listening to GSA Does That!? In this episode, we're talking about making a difference in cities across America through GSA's Good Neighbor Program.

Recently fueled with a boost of 24 million dollars from the Inflation Reduction Act, the program serves as a bridge between government needs and local desires. And if you haven’t heard of the IRA, w're talking about the Inflation reduction act, a historic investment in addressing climate change and supporting sustainability. These projects are all about collaborating to make our federal spaces better for the communities in which they reside.

We’ll be talking to Frank Giblin, the director of GSA’s Center for Community Planning and Design.  We'll ask Frank to talk about how the new funding is being deployed. Criteria for selecting projects. What truly lies at the heart of the Good Neighbor program?

We're also thrilled to have Professor Georgeen Theodore from the New Jersey Institute of Technology. She's leading a group of talented students in collaboration with GSA. This episode is about how federal investments are fostering sustainable urban development and creating spaces that truly reflect and enhance their communities.

So thank you for joining us. We'd love for you to subscribe. And for more information about today's episode and others, visit us online at gsa.gov/podcast. Hello Frank, thanks for being with us today. We really do appreciate your time. So, Frank, you're the director of GSA's center for Community Planning and Design, which oversees the Good Neighbor program. Our topic of discussion today.

I wondered if you might begin with an overview of the program and just what it aims to do.

Frank Giblin
Well, I guess long story short, GSA, as a federal agency, has a series of responsibilities that it needs to, to meet when it's doing real estate projects and there's a series of laws and executive orders, some of them dating to the time when GSA was first created. But the thread running through all of these things is the idea of leveraging federal real estate activity in support of larger federal and community goals.

So that goes from where you put a building? Can you put it in a place that meets federal needs, but also meets community needs or advances our interest? How do you design a building? The construction process itself could be important. And do you share the building, say, as a public venue? After it's constructed, there's even a component that, would look to disposal of properties and that our disposal process, that's something that can also support community.

So the idea is GSA has these responsibilities. Our mission is, you know, first to meet federal needs. But if we could do that in a way that leverages these larger goals, community planning, environmental justice, sustainability, and get those multiple returns that it's something that's very positive. It's very positive from a taxpayers perspective. And, but also from anyone who cares about communities and how healthy they are.

Rob Trubia
So it sounds like the idea is very much what it's named, the Good Neighbor program. So the federal government is being a good neighbor. We're not just coming in and saying, this is what we're doing. This is where it's going, and this is how it's happening. It's like, we need to get this service into your community. What's the best way to do it?

Working with community partners, because we want to be a good neighbor. We want this to be a value add to your community. Do I understand that right?

Frank Giblin
That's exactly right. I mentioned to, one way to look at it, you have federal agencies, some of them have the mission to advance community development and, you know, solve poverty and issues like that. So HUD, EPA, Department of Commerce, many, many others are doing work. They're doing direct grants to make some of these things happen to address larger societal goals.

Boy, what would it say a federal real estate agency came in and worked at odds with those goals or passed on opportunities to support those goals. So, you know, if you get really get down to the bean counting, I'll bet it's there's a strong case to be made there that why should the right hand of federal government be doing one thing and do something in the opposite direction.

So to we think that that thinking transcends administrations and ought to and transcends political parties. It's largely common sense.

Rob Trubia
So you just got a real shot in the arm of funding $24 million. GSA just announced that recently. I think you've got like 13 federal sites slated for new improvements. I'm curious how these locations were chosen, what the criteria was to decide which communities would benefit. Can you take us through that a little bit?

Frank Giblin
Sure, so you're talking about our Restorative Sites program with restorative sites was basically an idea that we, came to through the work that we've been doing with communities and with our regional offices over many years, and the idea that we had a pretty strong and well-founded hunch that our existing buildings were oftentimes being overlooked, either for sustainability improvements, community development opportunities, and even just bait for basic repair, you know, keeping things in good, good repair.

So we had an idea that, what if, you know, we know that funds are scarce. So what if we look for projects that have benefits that speak to those things and prioritize, those projects that have off site benefits, either the areas of sustainability, community development, economic development, environmental justice, and so, so forth, and see if there's a there there.

And planning A was let's go make that argument and say we think we there's some projects out there. Can we set aside some funding now and then approach the regional offices and compete so that the projects with the highest impact would get the funding? We didn't get plan A. Plan A was get the money upfront and go find that project. Instead, we went to a plan B, which was go find the projects and if they're compelling enough and what they're seeking to do and what they'll achieve, then you have a stronger case to make the pitch for funding.

And that's what we did. So our senior landscape architects, went out to the regional offices, working through the regional chief architects and the regional DNC offices. And said we're looking for projects that achieve these things again, sustainability, community development, environmental justice. And we don't have we are very clear, we don't have a promise of funding yet, but we think that if we get good projects, we'll have a good case.

so we did that. We got more than 80 project proposals, and then we whittled those down, to about 13 projects. And around the $24 million that you mentioned across ten states. So how we ranked those were first on the scope of the project visit, achieving something that's aligning with the goals that I mentioned as the, the project looks like it's it's ready to go.

you know, we don't have a long ramp up process or planning process. We want to get shovels in the ground. In addition to those projects, scopes and the promises of the project teams themselves and how they described what they were going to achieve. We also looked at third party data. So we looked at environmental justice mapping data, to see if the project, and its benefits might flow to a community with environmental justice concerns.

We looked at things like heat island intensities, some data sets and map things that NOAA puts out. We looked at floodplain stuff, we looked at stormwater opportunities. And from that we we came up with, I would call it a nonscientific, but pretty broad and pretty deep ranking of projects. And then we got lucky with with those projects in hand, we, we're talking with the IRA program office, and they looked at those projects and said, we think we can fund these, and they're so they were super supportive, came through with the $24 million.

And the projects now are funded out of IRA[h]. And specifically, it's about 60, 40 split between the high performance green buildings bucket and the low embodied carbon bucket. So on some of our projects, some of you might be familiar with them, are urban projects where there's a lot of concrete or flat work. Those projects are using low embodied carbon.

Other projects, all of them meet the sustainability requirements of the IRA bucket for high performance green buildings. So there was a plan A, then a plan B, and that, lucky roll the dice on on having IRA available with with the kind of funding that could meet the need. Yeah.

Rob Trubia
It seems like great business practice. Really? You you took the president's, initiatives. His his goals were about sustainability, environmental justice initiatives. And you're like, you know what? We can help communities in that regard. Frank, I'm curious if you could explain, because I understand building how to build with sustainable, you know, like low carbon and, you know, making things more efficient.

But one of the goals there is environmental justice initiatives when it comes to construction, renovation. What does that look like? Can you maybe explain that to me?

Frank Giblin
Yeah. So it's there's not a lot of projects, scopes that actually do have tangible environmental justice implications, generally speaking. I mean, doing systems work inside of our building generally does not. But when the projects start to get out into the public realm, or the scopes get out into the public realm, there's a lot of conditions around our buildings that that unfortunately fall more, regularly on communities with environmental justice concerns, than not.

And so things like where our projects are intersecting is on the kinds of heat island, many neighborhoods, especially environmental justice. neighborhoods are heat intensive, where the temperature is much greater than surrounding areas and has health implications. That has public space usability implications. And so that's that's an obvious one. Stormwater is another one where, you know, we could take care of our site but have taken care of.

Our site is shedding water into offsite areas where it's either directing or affecting specific properties. you know, we've had some cases where our stormwater is coming off at such quantity and velocity. It's actually undermining neighboring properties and things like that. And, where that water then spills into, say, a recreational river and that kind of thing.

We've, we've found instances where the project scopes, we were looking at that address that we're doing that in an area where it's likely to be populations from environmental or, environmental justice communities that are using those things with all of that entails water quality, public health, fisheries, you know, bio habitats and things like that. So, I mean, to bring mental justice is a whole nother conversation, but it's essentially the notion and the recognition going back, you know, some decades that it's the less powerful, members of society that too often get stuck with either the noxious uses they get the oil or oil refinery plants and things like that.

You know, the they get the bad stuff and they don't get the good stuff or the benefits of development in the same way that other communities do. So what we're trying to do is, is address both of those things. So the impact, or reduce those negative, impacts. But also if there's an instance where we can increase positive impact in that public realm, and especially in an area with the environmental justice concerns, and then it's, good alignment.

Rob Trubia
Can you provide us maybe an example or two of maybe the heat island or the stormwater? I mean, those are kind of, you know, exciting things, but they're huge. I mean, it's a big deal. In my mind you're turning a parking lot into maybe, a lawn, or

I don't know how that works. Where's this maybe happening? Is there a couple cases.

Frank Giblin
I'm thinking of a, property up in, Oregon where the building was built the 1970s. you know, there was stormwater, whatever stormwater standards existed at that point, if at all, were nowhere near the kind of robust standards that we have now for a new building. and it's, I think the project I'm thinking about, was originally contemplating a repair because the parking lot was buckling, creating trip hazards.

And then meanwhile, the parking lot essentially dumps into a river right behind it. Just without any pretreatment, without anything goes right from the hot tarmac, right into a river. And so that's a case where if you do business as usual projects, you might get a parking lot at the end of the nobody trips on.

But if you address it with, with additional resources. And so some of the sustainability focus in that case, we were able to apply the new stormwater management standards that would apply to new buildings. To that buildings you have less stormwater going, into this, this, fishery and into the, into the parks around it. and also by adding shade trees.

And not an inexpensive item, but, you know worth their weight in gold to reduce heat. But but, you know, both ends up a, you know, customer comfort thing. But more than that, reduces heat to anyone using the surrounding sidewalk, neighboring and that kind of thing. So there's those types of things, and there's also and this has been I've been at GSA for quite some time, but, I was here and, at 9/11 and there are, you know, we did a lot of, you know, quick security things there, you know, put in Jersey barriers and things around some of our properties that we thought were vulnerable, and temporary basis with

plans to come back later. Well, now it's later and there's still too many properties that still literally have the, you know, the jersey barriers around them that were placed there in September of, of 2001. And so I'm thinking of one project we're doing in Miami under restorative sites, where it's got jersey barriers blocking the bike lanes. It has, old fashioned stormwater management there and no shade, which is, you know, a valuable commodity in South Florida.

So the project is addressing all those things, it'll improve that perimeter but not obstruct the bike lanes, you know, that are connecting neighborhoods and are a meaningful thing that that city wants. And also providing that shade.

Rob Trubia
So you talked about blocking a bike lane, jersey barriers and some of these things. You don't see them after a while. You know, after 20 years of driving around jersey barriers, you just don't see them anymore. Yeah, it must be interesting dichotomy where someone from GSA and I know they're in the different regions, so they may have some familiarity, but they come in from the outside, so to speak, and then they meet with the community member or the, you know, the representatives from the community.

And I imagine it's a lot of listening. You're listening to what the community members are saying, hey, this is a problem. Like, we got to go around these jersey barriers to stay on the bike path. It's, you know, this parking lot is putting off a ridiculous amount of heat. There's a lot of things going.

So you for you guys it’s just a lot of listening to the community and then going, okay, we've got some funding. We want to help. We want to make this better. Let's work together, you know, are there challenges with that? Like you got the federal initiative and then you got really what the community wants to do. How do you guys play nice?

Frank Giblin
Yeah, I mean, it's a couple of things. one is you're right that that we tend to tune a lot of that stuff out and we stop seeing it, you know, every time you do the same thing at your house, you know, that that thing, if you were walking in thinking about buying your house, that, you know, loose doorknob would bug you five years after right after that.

You're not looking at that. Can we do the same thing with our properties? And I've noticed even when I've been working on a project like let's, let's say I do multiple site visits, I'll see things on the second and third site visit that I just did not see on the first site visit. So. So one of the things is we have ourselves, need to, do what we can to help us see better, you know, whether that's including, scope into our studies that takes a specific look at these things.

That's certainly something we have to do. And also, the community sees things that we don't and experiences things in a way that, that we don't. and so we have to value that, value there. perspective. And it's a long, long running perspective. They see things and experience things over time in a neighborhood, which is important to know.

And we're, you know, sometimes, you know, parachuting in for a quick on a quick project. And that's that's not where we need to be. The challenges though, you know, on a federal project, there's, there's a bunch, one of them is the projects that have the most impacts or the most are the largest, most complex, new construction projects, courthouse program, land port of entry program.

And in recent years, those projects have been funded, en masse. So here's, you know, here's $1 billion go to ten courthouse, here's $3 billion, go do 26 land ports. And that's good in some ways, but it doesn't give you much lead time to develop our local relationships. But think ahead, plan ahead. Tell the community the general nature of the project that's going to be in design two years hence or something, and let them think about what their visions are for the community.

You end up having to do things more slapdash than that. It's harder to do that. Well, and then the other challenge. So that's more on the timing. Just there's not as much time as you would want to to do good planning. The second thing is the way that the budgeting works is you get the funding before or you're something before you have a site selected, and long before you have a design and also before you can really engage with the community.

It's one thing to go in and talk to a community and say, we might be building a courthouse here three years from now. What do you think? And a difference to, hey, we just got funded for a courthouse. we're starting design in six months. The sweet spot is somewhere in between those two extremes. But that's been the challenge lately as our our major projects have been getting funded, you know, as big bags of money, do a bunch of projects at once, it just doesn't give us that lead time.

and then once we do engage, because the budget has been set a couple years prior, the federal budgeting process being what it is, it's hard for us necessarily, in many cases, to get the resources to respond to what we hear so we can get great input from, from local stakeholders. We can even agree with those about that input.

We can even have our clients agree. Maybe it's how to handle an intersection differently, or are putting it on more of a park like treatment at a corner. But too often we have to say we agree with you and we don't have the money to do it. That's  the most frustrating part of the job. And I think one of the greatest challenges GSA has is in the budget and budget, making environment.

How do we address these things where our engagement with the community actually leads to some responsive change or improvement of what we're doing as a, as a project. So that's been the tough part. So, you know, there's no silver bullet to that. I'd, I would love to tweak the budget process to accommodate for cases like that. Right now, the best we can do is go as far upstream, as possible with our thinking and engaging with our community stakeholders before things are funded.

Rob Trubia
Yeah, I can imagine with urban planning, you'd like to go ahead as far as possible and then work your way back down, because build these things that could be there a really long time.

Frank Giblin
Yeah. And some of our projects are ones that we our best projects are ones where we were looking a couple years down the road. I'd say the court's five year plan or the land port of entry five year plan. and saying, you know what, we don't know. We're going to get we're going to get funded for this next year or two years from now.

But it's pretty good odds we're going to get it sometime in the next five years. Let's do that heavy engagement now. And we've been able to do that, on some of the large, border stations in the southwest. And that's made all the difference. and then later, you know, other projects came along that didn't have that benefit of doing a more measured, engagement process with the local officials.

But to me, that's not a bad risk to take. You know, assuming there's a project need out there and it's going to happen sometime in the next 2 to 5 years. and we know we'll miss the boat more than would be necessary. if we don't, do the upfront planning. So I would argue that we should do that upfront planning and take the risk that that we might not be moving forward on the project for a couple of years.

That's better. That running to catch up.

Rob Trubia
So there's a project that I learned about in Newark that's really, to me, seems like real out of the box thinking where GSA's teaming with the New Jersey Institute of Technology. Can you talk a little bit about that project? What are you doing there and how are you involving NJIT?

Frank Giblin
Yeah, so it's a great project and it's some of the backstory around that is that Newark is one of those those downtown areas that that got the the jersey barrier treatment. And there's it's a it's a complex site and there's more than a thousand federal workers on that site. There's a post office, there's a relatively new construction courthouse, and then there's a 70s era federal building and frankly, for many years, it was seen by folks as an area that needs to be better that it it's the ashtray kind of planters that are, you know, blocking the roads and stuff.

And they also have issues with stormwater going into the basements of the properties. it's not really presenting itself as an amenity to the community. And so a really long story short, over a number of years we tried different ways to get some traction and get some momentum going. But budgets being what they are and, and other projects going on, etc., we weren't able to get that, that traction.

And then in I guess fall or, or maybe is early 2021. and I'm not sure who it was that the regional office had the idea, working with New Jersey Institute of Technology as a studio course, with them to address the campus. What is the lay of the land? What are the opportunities here, in a way, to help us get our arms around what was a pretty big, pretty big set of concerns on a complex site?

Could these students devote some time and and insight into it in a way that would help us with our focus? New Jersey and sort of technology created a studio course or ran for a semester, I believe is the fall of 2021, with about a dozen students and the professor Georgeen Theodore, and or and they, they, it was a, studio that included, architects and landscape architects and I believe planners as well, many of whom had had personal experience with the federal building there through, family naturalization processes and things.

So they experienced it as a user, that neighborhood, but also could take what they were learning in, their architecture school to see how would you approach this project, how would you prioritize things? And they gave us some fantastic ideas that are really good insight. Like I said, and that, the energy around that and the insight they brought to it and their, their ideas and creativity around what ifs, what if you did it this way, or what if you did it that way?

And attack with such rigor and energy that it really created a lot of energy on the GSA side of things. And so now the project is it's addressing pretty much all three blocks of that campus, and it's looking at, perimeter security, improvements, sidewalk accessibility improvements, stormwater, shade and gathering place things. It's really going to transform that area and how someone would experience it.

Rob Trubia
Well, we, we really need to get Professor Georgeen Theodore on this podcast. I'd love to talk to her further about all of that. Frank, thanks for taking the time. This has been very interesting, very encouraging, fun. We appreciate everything that you're doing. I know there's people that are benefiting from your team all over the country and that's pretty cool.

So thanks again. Thanks for taking the time to be on our podcast.

Frank Giblin
I really enjoyed it. Thanks a lot.

Rob Trubia
Well, joining us is Georgeen Theodore, a professor at the New Jersey Institute of Technology's Hillier College of Architecture and Design. Hi Georgeen, thank you for taking the time to be with us today.

Georgeen Theodore
It's my pleasure. Rob, thank you so much for the invitation.

Rob Trubia
Well, Georgeen, I'd like to know, how did your students at NJIT get connected with GSA's Good Neighbor Program?

Georgeen Theodore
Well, we at the Hillier College of Architecture and Design and NJIT, and someone from the the GSA reached out to our NJIT, and they said they're interested in having, doing a collaboration with students in Newark, connected to some improvements they wanted to make to the federal campus there. And, and so we had an introductory meeting, and we saw that there, were a lot of shared interests, and, we moved from there.

Rob Trubia
What was the reaction from your students? Pretty excited?

Georgeen Theodore
Yeah, the students were absolutely thrilled. I have to I'll be honest with you. we, you know, behind the scenes spent, you know, a number of months preparing for it before the students even had the option to choose it. But at our school, when it comes to the advanced studios, these are upper level, upper level studios for architecture and urban design students.

they, they choose the studio that they want to be in. but it only happens the semester before. And we started planning this studio, I think about nine months before the students even, you know, got the choice to, to, to go into it. But when the students saw that it was, not a theoretical project, but actually a project with real clients in the city in which they live and work.

they were they I thought that they thought that was a really attractive option. And so, when, we have our lottery, when the different options studios are presented, this was a very popular choice among our students.

Rob Trubia
Yeah, I know, I can imagine students have some huge ideas. Very creative at that age. Very excited. Did you have to tamper them down a little bit to say, hey, you know what, we can't do that. I love that idea, but this is the direction we need to go. Or were you able to really listen to everything they had and maybe some of that stuff's going to happen?

Georgeen Theodore
Well, it was a very collaborative, studio. So it's like a studio is like a design lab in which, you know, we have about, 15 students. We have a kind of a challenge for the semester, which is like 15, 15 weeks. And we say, okay, this is what we're going to do, in this particular course, and we meet, you know, I think, like maybe 12, 15 hours per week.

So it's really it's a lot of time invested. And, the students, I think, you know, we had, the idea was, you know, we'll look at this, what is called the campus in the downtown Newark. This is where, a lot of the important civic buildings are. That's where the city hall is. It's where the GSA has one of its most important, you know, office buildings, which has a lot of different departments and has a lot of public functions.

There's also the post office, there's the, the courts. So there's a lot of important things happening in this particular area. and our challenge was to, help the GSA come up with a plan for that whole area to make it better for the public, that uses it. And so there was this aspect that was kind of visionary, like, what should this place look like?

in, you know, 50 years. But the way that we structured the studio was that we had this long term vision, but then the students came up with ideas about how you could take the first steps towards that vision in the short term. So that was something that I kind of helped the students work on, which is how do you make, large scale, district wide vision for a whole neighborhood, right.

But then how can you couple that with projects that you can do now? And so the students, we all worked on that together. And I think that was a really good balance because as designers, yeah, the students, you know, we're all working to kind of come up with a compelling vision that people can get really excited about. And for this particular project, it was, you know, how can we transform up an area of the city that is yeah, has a lot of these important public buildings, but then the spaces between the buildings and the spaces that connect neighborhoods and other parts of the city to this area really could be a lot better.

there are, you know, a lot of, a lot of spaces that are really more for like, you know, parking cars as opposed to, you know, making it comfortable for people to sit or arrive to. So there were a lot of, excuse me, there were a lot of, ways that we could imagine, a different kind of place, you know, 50 years from now, like, really, could this really be almost like a park?

Like a park or a green space in the city? The longer term. But then the students came up with some really interesting, implementable projects that can be done in the next five years that inches closer towards that long term vision.

Rob Trubia
I imagine urban design. You really have to be forward thinking. You need to think way ahead, decades ahead, and then back up and then start from from square one. What's the initial projects? What are we going to see in Newark that these students are implementing that GSA's working with them on?

Georgeen Theodore
Yeah. Well, it's interesting that you mentioned about like, what urban design is and how you have to actually, you know, think about the long term and come up with a vision that can get people excited and that you can work towards. And then at the same time, you want to come up with projects that are implementable in the short term.

But the other thing that's really interesting about design and, urban design in particular, is that it can be just like kind of easy to kind of like check the box. oh. We can do this one thing because urban design and architecture in particular requires like the coordination of a lot of different inputs. So it's not only thinking about like, oh, how can we make this work for the GSA's needs?

which you have to do with, you know, all the operations that happen on their facilities, like, you know, hundreds of people are coming in every day, for meetings related to, you know, immigration. There's office workers who are coming in, there's the post office that's, you know, bringing in lots of mail. There are, you know, the courts which have, you know, jury duty people coming in and, you know, the local news reporting on it.

There's all lots of different things happening. And so when it comes to urban design, you have to like, think about the, kind of these basic questions, that relate to like, say, the client's, brief, you know, how do you get people on to the site? How do you keep it safe? But then we're also trying to coordinate other things that are like, well, how can we make the space more comfortable?

how can we, make it a nice place to occupy and how can we deal with some, you know, other things that may be kind of bigger than the site itself, like, you know, related to climate change? Like there’s an area of town that really suffers from, like, you know, flooding during, you know, storms.

So our project was really, trying to bring together those multiple prongs, like, first and foremost, and make the spaces between the building a kind of a beautiful and comfortable and dignified place for people to come, come to and use. but then we also had to deal with the security issues, like, how do you make sure that you keep this place safe without kind of, you know, while still making people feel welcome?

And then also how to deal with some of these environmental issues, like how can we make it cooler by using planting. How can we use planting to help clean the air? And also how can we use planting to help manage stormwater? So, the funny thing about kind of like, you know, urban design, you can't just have like one slogan and say like, oh, this is what we're doing.

It's a it's a complicated thing that threads together multiple issues, and that's what makes it, I think, so interesting for the students.

Rob Trubia
Yeah. I mean, after a huge project like this wraps up and I'm curious what really ends up being the impact on the community, how does the experience change for people coming to the areas? Is that what it's about, experience?

Georgeen Theodore
I think it's a really important aspect of it, I think a lot of times we just take for granted that, you know, the built environment around us is what it is, but really the built environment is the result of so many different, actions. Like, you know, if you walk down the street to really kind of look at things more carefully and to understand why they're there, and then to use that as a starting point for making it better.

So like, for example, on the federal, campus, there's a lot of things that are happening that are there because for good reasons, like, you know, you need to create a space that is, you know, safe, for people who are arriving. But sometimes the decisions to make a place more safe actually makes it less comfortable.

And so I think that's really where design comes in. How could we actually synthesize all of those different programmatic needs, and come up with a solution that maybe people didn't expect at first, but that it, answers all of those requirements, but then in the end makes them more beautiful and comfortable place. That's like at the heart of what we do as designers.

Rob Trubia
Yeah, that is exciting and has a huge impact on a community. I mean, you can create a security wall with a bunch of concrete barriers and it could be effective, but it's certainly not beautiful to look at and doesn't really want to make you be in that area for sure. I'm curious what your, as a professional, what's your experience been like working with GSA?

Georgeen Theodore
Well, it's I think it's really been great and very I just so impressed that as you know, as a special agency and department that they really are, you know, they're taking care of a lot of space across the country. Important spaces that are, you know, you know, central to people's lives, right? Like, you know, becoming citizen or, you know, protecting the country, or even like, you know, the other things that are part of the portfolio, like, courthouses and so on.

But I think what I was most impressed about is how the GSA really emphasized its design excellence. They, you know, have programs, that are really about not only just kind of like checking the box and like, you know, producing a building or creating an office space or making sure that, you know, people can get their security.

They're really trying to do it in a way that has a higher standard. And, and it's, and it's present in, in multiple things. So it's not only part of the ethos of the department, but that they have this design, they have this design excellence program. But, where they, you know, really bring in peer reviewers who look at a project and say, yeah, this is, you know, could be better this way.

People from that program came to our studio and like, talked to the students and gave them feedback. But the GSA also, you know, has a, you know, the arts program where they with every projects they, you know, bring in art to kind of, enrich the experience of users.

Rob Trubia
Yeah, it's my understanding that at the project kickoff, you and your students had an opportunity to sit down with Robin Carnahan, GSA's administrator. What was that like for the students? Is that a fruitful conversation? Were they into it? Were they excited to meet Robin?

Georgeen Theodore
Yeah, they they were. I mean, it was really incredible. The students, you know, we did this studio, two years ago. And so all these students have graduated and they all are out in the workforce, right? They're all, you know, architects and urban designers and training. And the majority of that came back and they came back.

And even though they have jobs, because they're proud of the work that they did, and I think to, you know, be a part of this event and to see that their work was recognized as being worthy of funding, I think was very meaningful for them. And we had, there was a big press conference that was, you know, on the street and in the federal campus in downtown Newark.

And there were all sorts, you know, the local news was there, and, the students were recognized, and that was great. But then afterwards, we had this kind of roundtable with the administrator and her team, and it was really, you know, the students in dialog with her. And I was just like, so impressed and moved by her that she just wanted time with the students to talk to them and to hear about their experience.

And that was just really powerful to see. But what was really interesting is that, you know, is so funny. She like, did this kind of round like this just for the feedback. The students were like, yeah, yeah, we're really dubious about this. we didn't and I was, I that was all news to me. But it was funny that they were they really spoke openly with her and and they, you know, didn't it wasn't just like they were there to receive praise.

It was that they really had an open discussion with her and talked about, you know, what they had anticipated and that they didn't expect in the end that this would actually turn out to be a real project, and that the fact that it was was so exciting for them.

Rob Trubia
Yeah, I'm pretty certain Robin enjoyed every minute that she's a very genuine person, really cares about what she's doing, loves young people. She's also one of our best recruiters. So I'm curious if she tried to recruit any of your urban design graduates. Can you imagine any of them ever working for GSA?

Georgeen Theodore
Oh, absolutely. I know my students. They're really, they're super ambitious, and they really look for places where they can make a difference in the world, but they also look for a kind of job security. And, you know, potential for growth. And I think I could see our students taking that kind of path. And and I'd also see other types of opportunities because certainly the GSA is working with design professionals around the country.

And, there are it's there I think there are multiple opportunities for collaboration, not only as GSA employees, which I think is a really incredible opportunity, but also as, GSA collaborators in the in the, other, you know, kind of professional positions that, students have or, graduates have, once they enter into the workforce.

Rob Trubia
Well, thank you Georgeen, it's been a pleasure having you on the podcast. And obviously a special thank you to your students at NJIT. You know, I, along with our listeners, are quite optimistic about the future of our cities, thanks to students like yours. Well, as we wrap up today's episode, a special thank you to our guests, Mr. Frank Giblin and Professor Georgeen Theodore, for their insights and dedication to transforming public spaces into thriving community assets.

It's very clear that the Good Neighbor Program isn't just about funding, it's about developing meaningful partnerships that bring to life the aspirations of local communities. So I hope you're inspired by what can be achieved, and communities and government collaborate towards common goals. Coming up in our next episode, learn how companies get out of contract with GSA and start doing business with the federal government.

It can be an intimidating process, but have no fear, we have a special guest that will break it down in easy to understand steps, so be sure to tune in. Well, thank you again for listening to GSA Does That!? Please subscribe and consider sharing this episode with your friends and colleagues. To suggest a topic or guest, drop us an email at gsadoesthat@gsa.gov

I'm Rob Trubia, joined by our executive producer, Mr. Max Stempora. This episode was brought to you by the General Services Administration Office of Strategic Communication. I hope you have a great rest of your day.