Let's Do Business

The latest episode of GSA Does That!? offers a valuable guide for businesses interested in engaging with GSA through the Multiple Award Schedule (MAS). Featuring Mr. Jack Tekus, the director of the MAS program. He discusses how getting on the MAS can open up opportunities for businesses and he provides a clear understanding of what to expect through the application process. The discussion helps companies determine if they're a good fit for working with the federal government, and if so, how to get started.

Want to know more?

Are you looking for more information about the Multiple Award Schedule (MAS)? Check out the resource below!

• The GSA Multiple Award Schedule (MAS) Program Interact community - a digital hub designed to conveniently provide industry partners and all authorized MAS users with important program information and updates, ensuring you always feel supported.MAS Office Hours - Your accessible resource for learning about the MAS program and getting your questions answered
• Vendor Support Center - A comprehensive source of information about getting your first contract, researching contract maintenance/compliance, or reporting your contract sales, ensuring you are always well-informed
• GSA.gov - Get all the information you need if you are looking to get on, or buy from a Schedule
• GSA Does That!? Small Business Episode

"GSA Does That!?" is the U.S. General Services Administration's first agency-wide podcast, offering listeners an inside look into how GSA and its partners benefit the American people. The podcast features interviews with GSA leaders, experts, partners, and customers, covering topics such as federal real estate, acquisitions, and technology. The title reflects many's surprise at the scope of GSA's impact. Whether you're a policy wonk or just curious about government operations, you can join the listener community.

For more information about the show visit, gsa.gov/podcast.

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction
• 2:16 Interview with Jack Tekus
• 28:44 Episode Close

Transcript

Rob Trubia
Well, welcome back to another edition of GSA Does That!? We are the podcast that uncovers the stories behind the federal agency delivering effective and efficient government. I'm your host, Rob Trubia. And in today's episode, we're talking about doing business with the federal government. How would you like to know, in plain language, the ins and outs to getting started and doing business with us?


GSA. In this episode, we're talking specifically about the multiple award schedule and why getting on this schedule unlocks a host of opportunities for your business. If there was ever a person you'd want to listen to about how to get started in the process and make it as painless and efficient as possible, it would be the director of the multiple award schedule program, and we've got him today, Mr. Jack Tekus.


Jack's not only an expert in government procurement, but he's also very good at explaining to anyone in very simple terms how it all works. He's very honest and clear about what your expectations should be. Jack's enthusiastic, but realistic. So in my opinion, there's no one better to have as a guest for this episode. You don't need a notebook or a pen.


Just your ears. I'm very confident. By the end of this podcast, you're going to have a big picture idea of how this all works and if your company might be a good fit. The federal government needs outstanding products and the best services, and we need them at a fair price. And to help you get started doing business with us,


be sure to join our annual three day virtual conference called FAST, where our subject matter experts talk about some of acquisitions, hottest topics, and just how to work through some of the most common challenges faced by the federal acquisition workforce. It's free and online from 1 to 4:30 p.m. eastern. May 14th through the 16th. And if you miss any part of the conference, don't worry.


We're recording the entire conference so you won't miss a thing. Visit gsa.gov/fast to register and learn more. So thank you for joining us and please don't forget to subscribe. For more information about this episode and others, visit us online at gsa.gov/podcast. All right. Let's talk business. Welcome to the podcast Jack. We appreciate you taking the time to be with us today.


Hey, before we get started, tell me who you hope is listening to this podcast, we've titled Let's Do Business.


Jack Tekus
Thanks, Rob. Happy to be here. Happy to always talk about MAS in general. I hope we have everybody right who should be listening. Everybody. So if you are interested in the multiple award program, I got something for you. If you're already a contract holder, I hope you learn something today. If you are a government buyer that needs to buy stuff.


I have stuff for you. And again, maybe you're just a regular American taxpayer that wandered into this crazy procurement podcast. I got stuff for you, too. So really, I got a little bit for everybody, and I hope it's at a level that is accessible to anybody that stumbled upon this one.


Rob Trubia
That is great to hear. Now that we know who you hope is listening to us, tell us who they're listening to. Can you share a little bit about yourself and maybe how you arrived at your current position at GSA?


Jack Tekus
Absolutely. I love talking about myself. For those of you that I didn't scare away. My name is Jack Tekus, and I am the director of the Multiple Award Schedule program, which is widely known as the MAS program or just MAS. So you're going to hear that a lot today. a little bit about me. I grew up in a suburb of Cleveland.


My undergraduate degree was in mathematics, and I do have my master's in public administration. when I am not knee deep in government procurement. My wife and I enjoy rescuing bulldogs. Regarding GSA, I started way back in 2004 as an industrial operations analyst. and in a nutshell, that program is responsible for monitoring product award contract compliance.

So if I have any contract holders listening out there and they've been visited by an IOA, which is what we what they go by and you walk through compliance, we walk through helping them marketing all that kind of good stuff. That's where I started my career. Spent 14 years in various positions, leadership positions there in the IOA program, started with the MAS program management office a few years ago, which eventually led me to where I am today, the MAS program director.


Rob Trubia
So, Jack, you and I committed up front to avoid acronyms and government speak. So all our listeners should have no problem following along, no matter what their experience level is. So we're going to do our very best with that. So maybe you can just start us off. Can you give us a simple explanation describing the different ways the federal government does business with private companies?


Jack Tekus
Absolutely. And doing that without the use of acronyms. I mean, it's really like with one arm tied behind my back, but I'll do my best. And if I say anything, I'll try to define it first, so companies can do business with the government a whole bunch of different ways. So there's something we call open market. So if the federal customer has a need, they can put out an RFQ and go buy things, services, products, that kind of stuff.


You also just to make the whole procurement world easier, both for our customers and the contract holders, you have these pre-established contracts so that, if I am a federal buyer, I don't have to do all the legwork. Right? Because there's a lot there's something called the federal acquisition regulation, and you're going to hear FAR all around this because that's to govern federal procurement, right?


Federal procurement. So they have to make sure they're in compliance with those regulations. So that's kind of where any free awarded contract so that the we've done some of that legwork for you. So in MAS if you're a federal buyer you can come to the MAS. we don't include all things. We don't do bombs or bullets. Right. So we tend to hover around commercial goods and services.


But if you have a need office product, for example, you can go through one of our many office product MAS contractors and the pricing is pre negotiated. Terms and conditions are pre negotiated. So the competition requirements are lessened. They're not zero but they're lessened. And as a federal buyer you can spend your time completing your mission. Right I need to get these goods.


You can go purchase with minimum requirements because a lot of that legwork is done for you. and there's many different types of contracts because there's different types of buying out there. MAS is one of them. GSA had multiple types of different contracts and then even other agencies established around their own contract. So there's many, many, many different ways the government buys through industry.


Rob Trubia
And your program. And, the focus of this podcast is the multiple award schedule. And like you said, the acronym is MAS, multiple award schedule. So it sounds like the multiple award schedule is about efficiency, about making it more efficient for the agency to be able to make purchases. Do I have that correct?


Jack Tekus
Oh, yeah. Yeah, definitely. Efficiency is definitely one of our keys. Again, the FAR as you know I apologize, if I segregate anybody, but it's a big book. There's a lot of things in there. So what we've done is when you buy through MAS, when a customer buys through MAS, they are FAR compliant. You don't need to worry about all those pieces because like I said, pricing has already been negotiated.


Your delivery terms are already negotiated. And again, we have multiple contractors in every category. So, you know, we may have 100 different contract holders that supply office products. So you get to then within that pool, you know do your due diligence. Look at your you know the different offers. Maybe some offer lower pricing, maybe some have better delivery terms.


So you still have our options as a buyer, right, to kind of do your research. But all of those contractors that we have listed are FAR compliant. Right. We've done that part so that that's what that efficiency is so that the legwork isn't there. So that that contracting officer, for example, from DoD, can go in, do their minimal effort to make sure they're getting what they need at a negotiated price with the right delivery terms, and then they can go about their day doing other, more complex buys.


one of our goals is making those commercial buys the efficient as simple as possible, so that when it's complex, you can spend more time over there where you really have to start digging into your due diligence.


Rob Trubia
I'm curious what would be one of the most expensive items that you could get on the multiple award schedule? How high does it go?


Jack Tekus
Here's kind of the cool thing with MAS, we'll just call it MAS from here on out, right? So that's the program we have at any given time, 14,000 MAS contractors. So when I say we have contractors, we have some contractors. I know one of the more recent things we're getting into with is like when you talk like IT services.


Right. Some of those can get exponentially expensive, right? When you talk about just buying. And again, this concept of buying a pen versus buying capacity on, you know, like a server, right. Or capacity in a cloud, system. So again, just because like they were our aim is to make things simpler, more efficient, it doesn't mean the product and services they're always simple.


But again us trying to take some of that guesswork out and package it in a way that is more efficient than if you had to start the procurement from from ground zero. Right. But yeah, those services when I was in IOA, I mean, we do, you know, we have certain types of vehicles and trailers. I mean, those could easily get 40, 50, $60,000, right, for vehicle.


So yeah, it's not all just offer then that being said, you could buy $60,000 worth of Sharpies if you wanted to. So it really I mean the flexibility of who's coming in to buy from us and then having all of those goods and services available. I mean, we really have a very wide and impressive spread of available products.


Rob Trubia
Is it only products or is it also products and services?


Jack Tekus
Products and services? Okay. I believe and again, I'm not quite that old. GSA really started in its roots, was very commodity driven. Right. So think like back in the day and I mean back back in the day, you know, paper, pens, cleaning supplies. Right. We still do those today. But yeah. No like as as the market. Right.




So had the market just you know environmental services and IT services then you know database engineers. So GSA the the MAS programs really have to meet what the government is buying. And we do that every day. So those individuals at the top level of our, of our categories, that's part of their job is all right. What is on what do we currently have offering through our contractors and what that next thing, what are those next services or products that the government is going to need to fulfill their mission.


And we got to make sure we have it under contract before they need it, right. So we're always trying to stay one step ahead of the buying or so that we have what those customers want and need.


Rob Trubia
Interesting. So it's really in the simplest form, it sounds like it's a lot of it's a pre-approval process. These are products and services that have been pre-approved by GSA. So government agencies, when they need that product or they need that service, boom. They can get it pretty quickly. Pretty efficiently, and at a price that's been negotiated. And that is very fair to the government.


Jack Tekus
Absolutely. prenegotiated is the word I would use that word shows up a lot in the FAR. But yeah, terms the conditions are set. And then interestingly enough, I mean, we have I mentioned earlier that IOA program that does compliance. So, so built into our program is we we have the, you know, compliance reviews with our contractor base to make sure they're complying with those terms and conditions.


Right. So it's just a little bit more so not only are we pre negotiating, you should be getting everything on the up and up. And if not we have a group that comes in, works with our contractors to make sure that truly what's happening educating helping them because again a successful contractor is a successful buyer and that's really kind of where we have our value is creating and maintaining that ecosystem.


Rob Trubia
The businesses that are pre-approved, what kind of wickets they have to jump through. And really, what type can you be a sole proprietorship and be on a multiple award schedule? Do you have to have a certain amount of employees? What's the criteria?


Jack Tekus
Jack that's a really good question. I get that one a lot when I when I do speaking events, because there's always I mean, there's a lot of interest. I mean, there's a lot of money that goes through the government. And I don't blame any business that doesn't think to itself, how do I get a piece of that? Right?


Like, how do I get in there? That could be a whole nother revenue stream. Again, one of the great thing that even at a GSA level, but typically at the MAS level, right, because MAS is one of the contract types of GSA owns, it really just fits that commercial buying pattern, right? So there are there are some checkpoints, right?


It's not necessarily perfect for everybody. But no, I, I've worked with contractors that are multi-billion dollar global entities. I've worked with. Again, I would say, you know, small business that is a single individual person running it out of a home office. Right. And and so really when it comes to MAS and I, you know, I speak to, okay, Jack, am I ready for this?


I'm going to plug this in. I'll talk about it later. but on the GSA website. So just gsa.gov. if you type in, you know, schedule, we have multiple things that, you know, someone interested in the contract can go take a look at one of them being the pathways to success training. and that's something you have to do.


That's one of the checkpoints of getting a MAS contract is kind of taking this training. and in that training it talks about like, how do I know if my company is right for this? So I'm going to list them off because these are in there. And again this will answer a lot of questions out there. So again the biggest thing is you got to know your product right.


So regardless if you're big or small you know you're you have a, you know, socioeconomic designation or not. It really is. You know, that almost doesn't matter. Right? It really comes down to this, right? Are you selling things that the government is looking to buy? There are some products that just the government does not purchase. And if that's the only thing you sell.


So if that widget isn't something that that the government buys, you could probably still get a MAS contract. You just it won't be very successful. It'll be frustrating because now you have this thing to sell through, but nobody's bought, right? So that's something where I love my program. I love it to death. I've been here almost 20 years.


It not the perfect fit for everybody. So you know, do that market research are federal, state, local government buying that type of product or services that you sell that to me to the you gotta look in the mirror and answer that question, open. And honestly now there are some other things. So for example, have you been in business at least two years and have two years of financial statements?


So again, remember, because we're renegotiating and again, we're making sure that we're establishing appropriate contract vehicles. there's risk there. Right. So part of our risk mitigation is, you know, we want to make sure that you've been established and you have some background. So that we know that, you know, your your company is sustainable. Right. Before we enter into this agreement with the government, do you have evidence of any successful past performance?


So again, this goes to the same thing where okay, great. You've been in business ten years. have you worked with the government in some capacity before? Let's talk about that. Right. So having that successful past performance is definitely a check mark as you go through the award process. And then this is the big one. And this is where everybody and this one gets skipped over a lot.


But as the post award compliance guy this is the one I hit up front okay great. You get you do all that. You have the resources to market your contract. Right. So those product services that you sell after award. So getting your contract is it's a wonderful thing. And it's not it's not a fast process I would argue it's not meant to be.


Right. We're vetting you to make sure that you are a positive community member of of MAS and of the federal procurement community. Right? So then you get it and you're like, yeah, I got I got my MAS contract. GSA,  we do not market on behalf of any one contractor. We market the MAS program. Remember, there's over 14,000 of you in there, right?


So we market the whole the whole thing. So it's not just getting a contract. You have to then take that and market yourself to the federal community. Right. And some companies miss that part and they don't have the right resources to do it or they just don't have the time. Again, I look at that one person shop and working from home if you're doing everything for the business.




Oh, and by the way, you have to market the federal it it can become a lot and it can cause frustration. But really those are the four key points. The only other thing I would add in there is along with marketing, because we're the government, there are post contract award administration functions. You're going to report that they're orderly or there's certain clauses you have to make sure you're compliant with as your products or services.


So it's like that post award administration. You have to be able to do that too. Otherwise again that could lead to frustration where you have the thing that you work so hard to get, but you missed the okay, now I got it. Now what if that now what? That a lot of companies kind of trip over because so much is spent on how do I get it when really it should be.


How do I maintain it that that's not as important when it comes to receiving a contract?


Rob Trubia
Talk to us a little bit about the process, because I think it certainly could be intimidating. Whether you're a five person company or a 5000 person company, it could still be intimidating.


Is it difficult? Is it intimidating? What are maybe some of the misconceptions?


Jack Tekus
I'll say this, we we MAS, right GSA but the MAS had done a really good job mimicking. Again, I keep using that word like normal buying patterns. Right. So and we strive to do that because again the lift is lessened and it shouldn't be. Government procurement is in this bucket. And normal everyday procurement it's over here and it's completely different.


So marrying those two ideas together I feel like MAS has done a really good job. That being said, you're entering into a contract, right? We keep using that word because, you know, but that contract adds the weight to it, right? You're entering a contract with the federal government that we are going to do our part.


Right. And you as the contract holder are going to do your part, right? It's a serious thing. I mean, and it takes time. And whether a company attempts to do those steps on their own, which certainly we have created it such that that is the best way in my mind to do it .


So you have to be open. Got to learn about federal procurement. If it's not something you're aware of, right. you do not need to memorize the FAR right. But there is it's a new thing, right? So you want to go learn about this new thing as you're going through the process.


And I feel like the process that we built, when you do that on your own, that there's a company even, you know, that one shop person, it might take them longer to get a contract just because they're doing everything. But what they're learning through that process is their responsibilities. Right. Why is my pricing at the this? What does stealing rate mean?


Why or my delivery terms? What they are because they've negotiated them. They're sitting at the table learning, asking questions with their GSA contracting officer who, you know, owns the contract on a method. So I'm okay. You got to be a learner, right? I mean, if you're going to do this yourself, the steps are there, the support is there.


Again, I'm a I'm a huge process improvement guy. And this is something we look at it every year. How can I not make the process easier? I feel like that's the wrong way, the wrong way to explain it, more accessible, right? So is it worded in a way that anybody, even if you don't do government procurement maybe no commitment at all.


Right. You can come in and read it and understand that because of the plain language and are the steps clear so that, you know, there might be a month between step one and step two. So it's not you when you haven't done anything wrong. This is Norm, right? So to me it's almost like that. You know the pizza tracker idea, right?


Like I feel like it when it's frustration. It's because the individual not sure where they're at in the process. So we're always looking at ways where can we make that more clear so that they just know. Because if you know, like, okay, I'm two steps away, I'm probably two months, three months out, okay. Right. Like I know where I'm at.


I'm not as frustrated. We want people that are willing to learn, ask questions. and then certainly this is meant that they can go through it on their own. And I think that's very rewarding because on the back end, they know what their responsibilities are. So that post award now what do I do.


Right. A lot of that. Not that it's easy, but I know, because you went through the process, oh, I know I have to report my sales every quarter because we talked about this during, you know, during the negotiations before I had my contract. Certainly, you know, there are there are consultants out there that are that are willing to help through that process.


And again, there's all levels of help, right? This is what I'm saying. If you're if you're going down that road, do your do your homework. That's al—--l right. Just make sure you know what you're getting and what you're not getting right. And then make a business decision. But what you're not getting in my head is because you're not the one going through the process.


I also think that if you're not 100% in or you're not sure you're on the fence, yeah. You're not. You don't want to wait nine months for a contract. Okay, then it's just not the right time for you. That's all right. If you know you have a product or service that you know you want to be a, you know, contract holder, sell to the government, those people are going to stick with the process and be engaged.


And I think there's, you know, the outcome of that is very positive, right? Because you you got the blood, sweat and tears. You know, what you have to do now. It's like, yeah, go sell like we market program. We have, you know, people that can talk with you what marketing means. We have all these different resources because if you're successful, we're successful.


They'll government buyer is successful. And that's really kind of what we're striving for.


Rob Trubia
You explain that really well and it's very up. Understand. That's the kind of stuff that I don't think people can read to understand that going through the process yourself really can give you a leg up, especially on the back end of that when you start to market. Because when I was doing my research for this podcast, I was really very surprised.


If you're a company going through the process and you're curious, maybe you have a question about the process or you're in the process, you want to know where your application is, so to speak? Can you do something really old fashioned? Can you pick up the phone? Can you talk to a human at GSA and say, where's this at, I need help, I've got questions, or is that just not realistic?


Jack Tekus
So yeah. So thankfully yeah. One we have a group that is called and again sorry for the acronym, but I'll explain it at the National Customer Service Center, NCSC. And thing you have multiple layers of individuals there that are really good at kind of answering like the tier one, tier two questions, right? What they're also really good at is if it's something they can address, getting you connected to the right point of contact.


So that very well could be a specific contracting officer in one of our categories. Right. the other really good one is one of the inboxes that I maintain, which is the MASPMO@gsa.gov. that's kind of like the easiest entry in the MAS, though it could be. Where's my award at? It could be.


I'm not sure that you guys would let me sell the product. You know, like anything like that can be sent to that mailbox. maspmo@gsa.gov. and again, I don't claim to have all the answers. I have a staff that have many, but if not really are a big part of connecting that individual with the right subject matter expert.


that can answer those questions, because again, I want you on if it's something that we need, I want to facilitate that transaction that gets me where you need to be so that everybody.


Rob Trubia
Yeah, I think it's important for people to understand, for companies to understand. We want you on the multiple award schedule. We need your product. We need your services. We want to make that available to our agencies. And that's really the mission of your entire team. If you're on the multiple award schedule, are you only doing business with federal government or our state or local governments also have access to the multiple award schedule?


Jack Tekus
Yes. No, actually, there there are certain situations. So let me take a step back. So historically, yes, we talked to federal customers. Right. And you know, there's individual agencies that have the authority to purchase through the MAS program. That being said, there are unique situations to where state and local and tribal entities can also purchase through MAS.


and I feel like that's another one of those areas where insiders know. Right. That's the thing. But I know at least once or twice a year I'll be on a call with like our state local, just, you know, those those they all seem to be low. Like, are we getting out there? Do people know that this is an option?


and so, yes, like, all that can happen and one of them, is just so, for example, if there is an upcoming natural disaster, right, that we know a hurricane is, you know, coming or, you know, being hit somewhere when the president says, okay, there's, you know, this is official, we have a national disaster that opens up state and local to purchase items in response to that national disaster.


Now, again, it's a very specific thing. So it's not all the time there are some constraints around it. But yeah, there are multiple avenues where state local can and entity can purchase through MAS. and again, it seems like those that know they can do it, we see them repeat, you know, their repeat customers. But there's a lot that don't.


So part of me is again, do they have a better place to go, which could be the case, or do they just not know it's an option?


Rob Trubia
Jack, any final thoughts? What do you hope your time in this podcast achieves? What is your like, what would be the perfect result of this podcast from your desk?


Jack Tekus
Yeah, I think my hope, right was to make kind of this concept of government procurement just more understandable, right? Whenever I talk to contractors or anybody that's interested, I love this program. I'm almost had 20 years in it right. It's a fit and for some and it's not for others. So just kind of unlocking that open and honest conversation of what is MAS, you know, what does success look like? What what does it not look like? and again, if I'm lucky listeners, they'll be able to take some little nuggets of knowledge from that.


And then, you know, just be able to make more informed decisions when it comes to the relationship between their businesses and the MAS program.


Rob Trubia
It's a cool program because, I mean, the taxpayer wins because the government is paying less for the product or service they need, and they're getting a great product. They're getting a great service, and then it's great for business. It's great for the economy in America, for it just sounds like, you know, you get on the schedule and then maybe with some marketing and some work and some patience, business can really start to flow.


And it really can be a very good thing for your company. A real shot in the arm, to say the least.


Jack Tekus
Yeah. And we didn't even broach this topic. And it's probably a topic all in itself, but supporting small businesses, right. So, you know, whether you're, hubzone company or you're, you know, a small woman owned company, again, getting those types of individuals and companies that contract. I'll, I'm a math guy, right, I’ve got a math degree. So I did kind of want to before we're off today.


so small businesses, right? 58% of our small businesses reported sales in FY23. Right. And again, you remember, we have 14,000 contractors, so 58% of the the huge number, what does that look like? That was 16.4 billion with a B dollars that went to small business. Right now, I didn't break it out by the different socioeconomic bit.


But for me that that's huge, right? In totality our contractors with everybody. So 60% of our contractor base reported sales. And again in FY 23 that 47.7 billion with a B dollars. So there there is, there are taxpayers dollars being used. And that's just MAS. That is MAS contracts. Right. so the money is there. And now it's my job to make sure we have an environment where we have the right contractors, the right products, right services, so that our agency buyers can be successful.


We're supporting small business. and and it's just it's a really, really awesome ecosystem to maintain. And and again, it's never static. Right. Because tomorrow there'll be some new service that we got to make sure or some new product that we know is going to be bought six months down the road. And it's like, okay, how do we get that?


Right? How do we get that product or service on our contract so that we're a step ahead of our buyers? so we have it before they even know.


Rob Trubia
Well, Jack, if I get this, you've done a great job because I think I get it. So thank you. It's really you've made it really simple. You've explained it really well. It's really very cool. And I get it. And I've been in the government a long time. So thank you. This is pretty cool. There you have it folks.


Everything you need to know. Just start the process of doing business with the federal government. Jack. Thanks so much for taking the time to explain all of this so well. And a special thank you to your entire team of dedicated individuals that are working every day to save taxpayer dollars and providing incredible business opportunities to companies across America.


Well I think you'd  agree that Jack did an outstanding job presenting this in a very clear and easy to understand way. There's a lot of opportunity out there and we want you to take advantage of it. 


And… to make sure you have all the resources you need we’re providing several links in the shownotes at gsa.gov/podcast, that’s gsa.gov/podcast so be sure to check them out. You might also consider taking advantage of our open office hours - where you can talk to a Multiple Award Schedule expert, not to mention our additional resources like the Vendor Support Center, and our online community tool, Interact. As you can tell we’re here to support you. And finally, if you’re a small business, I think you’d really benefit from listening to one of our recent episodes where talked to Mr. Exodie Roe, he’s GSA’s head of The Office of Small and Disadvantaged Business Utilization. We’ll put that link in the show notes as well, at gsa.gov/podcast. 


Thanks again for listening and subscribing. We’d love you to share this episode with a friend or colleague. And if you have an idea for a topic or guest, drop us an email at gsadoesthat@gsa.gov. I'm Rob Trubia, joined by our executive producer, Mr. Max Stempora. This episode was brought to you by the General Services Administration Office of Strategic Communication. And now you know… GSA Does That!?