Best Place to Work

Are you seeking a workplace you love your job, and feel valued while making a significant impact? According to a recent survey, the General Services Administration (GSA) is just that place. In our latest episode, host Rob Trubia interviews Arron Helm, GSA's incoming Chief Human Capital Officer, and Katy Kale, GSA's Chief Operating Officer and Deputy Administrator. They discuss how GSA, ranked as the number two midsize agency in the 2023 Best Places to Work in Government survey. GSA fosters a supportive, inclusive culture that prioritizes diversity, equity, and inclusion. This commitment has led to high engagement and satisfaction scores, making GSA a top choice for talent.

Want to know more?

Are you eager to learn more about the exciting career opportunities at GSA? We invite you to explore the resources below to get started on your journey towards a fulfilling and rewarding career with us.

• Careers at GSA
• USAjobs
• 2023 Best Places to Work in Government Survey

"GSA Does That!?" is the U.S. General Services Administration's first agency-wide podcast, offering listeners an inside look into how GSA and its partners benefit the American people. Hosted by Rob Trubia, the podcast features interviews with GSA leaders, experts, partners, and customers, covering topics such as federal real estate, acquisitions, and technology. The title reflects many's surprise at the scope of GSA's impact. At the same time, the artwork pays homage to President Harry S. Truman, who established GSA in 1949 to improve government efficiency and save taxpayer money. Whether you're a policy wonk or just curious about government operations, you can join the listener community.

For more information about the show visit, gsa.gov/podcast.

Chapters

• 0:05 Introduction
• 1:36 Interview with Arron Helm
• 24:59 Interview with Katy Kale
• 31:20 Episode Close

Transcript

Rob Trubia
Imagine a workplace where you don't dread Mondays. What if you loved your job? Look forward to coming to work, felt valued and knew you made a difference. Imagine having time for life outside of work to pursue your passions. What if you work to genuinely serve people? Not just boost the bottom line. And what if I told you that the General Services Administration is exactly that place?

I'm your host, Rob Trubia, and in this episode of “GSA Does That!?” we’ll reveal where GSA ranks among government agencies in the Best Places to Work survey in the federal government. We'll hear from Arron Helm, who is on deck to become GSA's next Chief Human Capital Officer. We'll discuss GSA's priorities and why the Best Places to Work survey matters.

We're also privileged to have Katy Kale, GSA's Chief Operating Officer and Deputy Administrator, on the podcast today. We'll talk with Katy about GSA's people first priority, how it shapes the agency's culture and what it truly means. Whether you're already working for a government agency serving in the military or in private sector, or maybe even a high school or college student wondering about your future, GSA could be the perfect place for you to build a fulfilling and impactful career.

Welcome to “GSA Does That!?,” the podcast that uncovers the stories behind the federal agency delivering effective and efficient government. Before we get started, please take a second to subscribe. And for more information about this episode and others, visit us online at gsa.gov/podcast. Welcome to the podcast, Arron. We appreciate you taking the time to be here. I want to be upfront with our listeners right off the bat.

This episode is an effort to recruit the best and brightest to GSA. Perhaps some of you that are listening right now. And with that said, I also want to share that GSA has consistently ranked very high in the Best Places to Work in the federal government survey. As a mid-sized agency, it's routinely been in the top five. And I believe in 2022, GSA was ranked fourth.

Arron, here's my question. Where does GSA stand? In the just released 2023 survey.

Arron Helm
Well thanks, Rob. So, so hot off the presses. You know, we just found out that GSA this year has stepped up a couple lines in the ranking. Ranking number two for midsize agencies in the best places to work. So we're really excited about this, increase in our ranking as well as the positive engagement and satisfaction scores provided by our GSA workforce that led to, that placement in the ranking.

Rob Trubia
So Arron, GSA overall ranked number two midsize agencies. That's fantastic. Do they do anything with some of the smaller offices inside the agencies? Do they rank those at all? If so, how did GSA fare?

Arron Helm
Yeah. So so the rankings do break down, to, to a subcomponent level for agencies. So while GSA fared very well across its, its sub offices. Three of our sub offices, the Office of Chief Financial Officer, the Office of Chief Information Officer, and the Office of Government-Wide Policy, all ranked in the top ten of out of nearly 500 subcomponents that were ranked in the survey.

Rob Trubia
That's really exciting. Congratulations. That's a big deal. I mean, it's not a guarantee by any stretch. I did look at the rankings. GSA went the right way, and not just by one click, but by two. Almost number one. I'm curious what you think maybe some of the factors have been that took GSA from 4 to 2.

Arron Helm
Yeah. So this year has been an exciting year for GSA. You know, myself joining partway through the year, I've I've gotten to to see a lot of the different factors impacting GSA and its workforce. It's been a great year for recruitment outreach. We've brought in hundreds and hundreds of new employees to the workforce, giving them a very positive experience.

We've gotten a lot of positive feedback from employees that have joined the GSA workforce over the past year in terms of the type of support, the the positive environment. People have described it as kind of being a family environment. Everybody jumps in to help them out. They feel very cared for. And, I think that that been a huge thing.

GSA really prides itself on being able to focus on its mission, focus on supporting the federal wide mission while ensuring a positive work life balance for our employees. So I think there's a number of factors. It's also been a big kind of a growth year for GSA. So so that's given us a lot of opportunities. You know, in terms of building our workforce, providing opportunities and development and, and all of those kind of things that the workforce is looking for.

So, yeah, it's been kind of a banner year, I think.

Rob Trubia
You know, people say first impressions are really everything. The onboarding at GSA, I've heard from several employees, I can speak to this myself. I'm curious what you thought - was fantastic. I mean, it's really impressive, the onboarding. It just makes you feel good. It makes you feel you're welcomed. It's smooth. The tech is fantastic.

Arron Helm
Yeah, absolutely. That's that's a great item to bring up and very timely. I've actually been having a quick, meet and greet, ten, 15 minute discussions with new hires, people that come into the agency over the past three months to kind of go one on one. And just like, how did it go? What's your experience? And those are things that I've heard that that, that in fact, I had some of these conversations this week and people have highlighted the onboarding experience has been incredible, that people were continuously reaching out to help them navigate the process.

And it was very streamlined. That they felt supported. They felt like the people that they were working with at GSA actually cared about them as individuals. It's just been really positive feedback. Get many comments, especially in these are people, some of whom are coming from other agencies or having been at multiple federal agencies, that they this was the most positive experience they've had in their federal careers.

It was smoother. They had IT functioning and able to get into things on day one, which, you know, isn't necessarily always the case. So it's just, really great that I've been hearing that from individuals that have onboarded over the past three months that, that, that they were. And that really sets things in motion. Like you said, that's the first impression.

So if they start off positively like that in their their managers and coworkers are really helping them navigate the agency. It's going to be a long term positive.

Rob Trubia
It's, I'm glad to hear that you're getting great feedback. I know it's a great experience for a lot of folks. I want to talk about the actual survey that we started, the podcast talking about. You know, GSA ranked number two for 2023. This survey, put out by the Partnership for Public Service - The Best Places to Work in the Federal government.

Why is this survey important? I mean, this press release, it's a big deal. Why should our listeners care? I'm curious, Arron, why do you care?

Arron Helm
So first, this this is sort of the benchmark survey in this space for the federal government. So, you know, I've been in the federal government a long time. And agencies that I've been at, we've kind of used this in various ways, but it's important because it really reflects the federal government's commitment to fostering a positive work environment, you know, really wanting to ensure that employees are motivated and engaged, you know, engaged employees are going to perform better work, help the agency meet its mission, and really, you know, be committed to supporting the mission of the agency, the federal government, and ultimately serving the taxpayer, which is our primary role.

Arron Helm
So using this survey really gives leadership kind of feedback on what the employee perspectives are in terms of their work, their day to day life, how the agency leadership management kind of is treating them, working with them. And it gives us it shows us, you know, the degree to which they understand their connection to the mission. And and you know, how they feel about the services that they're able to provide.

So it's really intended to help foster, you know, the trust between the workforce, the federal government, you know, the people that we serve. And it gives us kind of a degree of transparency. When we're looking at that, you know, it's important. It measures perspective, right. And perspective is often, is reality. And we want to make sure that we are understanding, you know, things that what our employees see.

And always digging through that data and information to see, no matter how well we do, being number four, being number two, there's always opportunities for continued growth and improvement in this space. And this is one of the key ways that that we really gather that information from our broader workforce.

Rob Trubia
So you’d say across government, this survey holds a lot of stock?

Arron Helm
Yes. It's it's every major agency. You know, GSA is factored into what's considered a mid-size agency, but it covers all federal departments and independent agencies. So it's a very big deal in the federal space.

Rob Trubia
How do you think being number two, being ranked so high and consistently ranked so high helps affect, you know, talent acquisition, retainment? I'm curious if there's, bragging rights between you and your agency counterparts. How does that all work?

Arron Helm
So there is definitely kind of a little kind of friendly competition between agencies. You know, as I meet with folks at various government wide venues, you know, we're we'll rib each other in a fun way about where we are. But what it really helps us with is that recruitment, retention, you know, we have a great retention, which is directly linked to how positive the current workforce feels about working for the agency.

It also helps us on the recruitment side, not just that we can market this and say, oh, you know, we did great, but it's what our employees are telling other people potential, recruits potential, you know, folks that we can bring into the workforce. And in just thinking about that meeting with a new employee earlier this week, been here, less than a month, in GSA, she told me she's like, I wanted to get to GSA.

I've been at two other agencies, but my coworkers, a couple of them, a couple of years back went over to GSA, and they've just been telling me this is the greatest place to work. You've got to get over here. You've got to, you know, this is where you really want to be, to be able to do, you know, achieve your goals and kind of grow.

And finally, this this person was like, I finally made it over and it was like a big deal. But it was all because of what people she knew that our other at work at GSA were telling her about what it's like to be here in the the positive work environment, in the level of support and everything, an opportunity that you would we would have.

So and I've heard that from multiple, multiple people as I've been engaging with the workforce.

Rob Trubia
It sounds like your best recruiters are GSA employees. I mean, just providing internal leads and just talking. People talk about what they're excited about. People talk about what they're into and what they feel good about. And if they feel good about their jobs and they're just sharing with family, friends, whoever they might know and they hear and the reputation is GSA's a great place to work.

Arron Helm
That that's exactly it. That’s what, I hear that consistently, especially from newer, newer folks that we're bringing in into the agency that that part of the reason they looked to come here was because of what they were hearing from people they know, or also from others have told me it was because while I work in this field, and I had this project between my agency and GSA, and I was really impressed with how they work in, you know, the things that I was hearing or seeing, you know, getting better to understand their business model. And that it's also a driver.

So it's kind of like it's kind of seen it from both that employee side, but also people that have just worked professionally with the agency as well.

Rob Trubia
You know, and I don't think this is a new thing because I was recently interviewing a very successful GSA employee a couple months ago on this podcast, and she talked about GSA as a destination agency. She was coming out of the Department of the Navy. She was looking at careers in civil service. She landed at GSA and she said, I hit the jackpot.

I'm at GSA. I'm at the destination agency. I'm like, I'm curious if you've ever heard that before. How does that make you feel to even hear that?

Arron Helm
Well, first, I think it's great. I think I and it's funny that that you had somebody interviewed that used that term because I have heard that specific that specific term used with some of these new folks that I'm talking, that I've been talking to recently. And again, I'm just using very recent examples because I've done several of these meetings over the past few weeks.

But one new employee came just came to GSA has been here, I think, since March. She specifically told me that like I've been at two other agencies, I've had a good experience. But the destination I was seeking was GSA. She used the term destination, and it was because of her coworkers from another agency that that were over here at GSA.

Now continue to tell her, like, you've got to come here to use the term, she said, that GSA, it seems to operate at a higher capacity was was a quote. And kind of people told her they were taken aback when they first came here over how helpful everyone is. The resources that are available, the support that they received coming into the agency as a new employee.

So yeah, that's great. I, I, I think it's great that that's the term is being used pretty frequently to describe it. And and like I said, she said this was where I was hoping to get this was my the destination I was seeking. So I think it's great because it does kind of tell a lot about the agency, about our commitment to the to the workforce, about fostering a workplace where people really want to be, enjoy being, have opportunities to grow and thrive.

And it's, you know, there's the job aspect, but there's more to it than the job in the work you're coming to do. It's really having that sense of belonging and purpose and in community that I think, sets GSA apart.

Rob Trubia
Yeah. At the end of the day, everybody wants job satisfaction. How some people get job satisfaction may be different than others. One thing that is just across the board, in government, you 're not working for a bottom line. Maybe people are out there listening like, I'm tired of working for a bottom line. I want to work for a greater good.

I think potentially GSA can do that for them.

Arron Helm
Yes, absolutely. And that's kind of what I was getting at. And I mentioned earlier where thinking about GSA, you know, GSA has a fantastic mission and it has a much broader and far reaching impact on the entire federal space than most people not involved might think or know. And the opportunities to really impact efficiency and service, you know, across multiple federal agencies is something that GSA presents, which is is different than another agency where, yes, you're going to work for that agency and you're going to do their mission.

We have that opportunity to have that much broader impact across the federal space in terms of getting the best value for for the taxpayer.

Rob Trubia
Which keeps it fun. I think for people, because they get to they get to learn about the different agencies, interact with them and just be across government, which I think keeps people from getting burnt out because it continues to be interesting. Arron, I want to talk about you a little bit. you've just been tapped to be the next Chief Human Capital Officer for GSA.

That is a very cool title, by the way. Very cool. Maybe you can just help us understand a little bit about some of your core responsibilities in that role. And congratulations, by the way.

Arron Helm
Yeah. Thank you. And I and I'm really looking forward to, to, transitioning into that role. And, you know, it's really exciting. And I was really honored when I was asked if I'd be interested in doing that. So, you know, you know, first there's a the Chief Human Capital Officer for GSA as a broad spectrum. So, so it is the person responsible for the entire human resources enterprise, for the agency.

So, you know, we provide every service from, you know, our hiring, talent acquisition, outreach, recruitment, labor relations, you know, working with our union partners. And employee relations, providing benefits, retirement counseling, you know, policy oversight. There's a whole gamut of the functional responsibility of the Chief Human Capital Officer. But the main thing is really working to help the agency and its leadership ensure that the organizational culture continues to evolve in a positive way.

That really, you know, continues to empower our workforce, make sure that we are growing, developing or supporting our workforce. Our employees, that workforce - they are the most valuable asset to this agency. We achieve nothing without them. And it's critically important for the Chief Human Capital Officer to kind of lead the effort, to make sure across the GSA enterprise that our, our workforce has the right support, resources and opportunities to to really be successful.

Rob Trubia
So I mentioned I thought your title was cool, but it sounds like after listening to you, if you were in private sector, your your title might be like Chief Culture officer or something like so you're saying that really your job is about maybe protecting and helping to, progress and maintain an outstanding culture within GSA?

Yes. That's that is a key critical element of the role. For sure. And it's really to to make sure that that, that it's being done at the enterprise wide, an agency wide level, you know, and that there's not pockets doing various things that could create inequity or anything of that nature. So it's really trying to ensure a kind of consistent, fair, inclusive, empowering cultural environment.

So Arron, I've got some bad news for you. You've been given this new position, and GSA is number two. So there's only one way to go. It's only one place to go. And that is the number one. What do you think maybe some of the key factors are that you and your team are focused on to just keep GSA being a fantastic place to work in and maybe, maybe get to number one.

Arron Helm
That would be fantastic. It's definitely one of our goals. I definitely think a lot of things that we've hit on in this conversation are the critical factors that we need to like, continue and carry forward, enhance where we can. You know, everything kind of plays  together, making sure what we're bringing, we're bringing in the best and brightest possible talent.

We're we're giving them the tools to support. You know, the welcome, that first impression. The folks that I've been talking to that came on board this year. Right. They're giving a lot of positive feedback. Well, they weren't here when this last survey happens, but they're going to be the pool for the next time. So hopefully we'll see some of that positivity reflected.

But it's it's making sure that carries forward and really continuing to get the messaging through our, our leadership kind of chain, at every level to to ensure that there's that consistent approach across the agency. to how we grow, how we foster that workplace, that that has resulted in the positive results that we have thus far. You know, there's always there's tons of factors that that come into play.

But our kind of commitment is really, you know, to, to continue to make sure that there's a sense of belonging for our employees, a sense of purpose. What we talked about a sense of community. I think that that is so critical, important to how people see their workplace and, and really to to continue to make sure that every, every voice is heard.

And we want our people to have this positive impression because, like, we started the conversation with, they're the ones that are can be out there marketing GSA as the destination workplace and getting helping us get the new talent that we need to carry forward as well.

Rob Trubia
Well, I've had the great privilege of having our Administrator, Robin Carnahan, on the show a couple of times now. She's one of the most competitive people that I know, and she's also, an excellent recruiter. Spends some of her time, she travels extensively, and whenever she travels, she'll take the time to try to recruit. What would you tell individuals

listening to this podcast from the private sector. What are they going to see as a government employee that might make their work life balance? Maybe just their, type of work? All of it. The whole package. How does it look different than the private sector? I know there's a ton of similarities, but maybe what could they look forward to?

What do you think?

Arron Helm
So? A - there's obviously the the sense of purpose that you get from sort of serving a greater good beyond the bottom line. You know, that knowing that you have a broad ranging impact on things that affect the public at large, the American people, the taxpayer, things that affect the effectiveness of government wide operations. I think that's a really important difference.

Then you also have the kind of the the more individually focused differences. There is just a fantastic work life balance that may or may not be similar to to every private sector, organization. But it's, it's there's a lot of good flexibility but still core mission focus. Right. There's, you know, kind of a degree of stability in the federal space that that can vary outside of outside of the federal sector or outside of the public sector.

But to me, at the end of the day, there's really just the sense of that, that you are contributing something bigger and I mean, that's what's always driven me ever since I came into the federal government as an intern. So that's why I did it, right? It was. I want to make things better. How do you make things better unless you're in it?

Rob Trubia
Congratulations. Congratulations on the job on number two. Arron, thanks for your time. Thanks for just sharing with all of us how much you love GSA and why you think it's such a great place to work.

Arron Helm
Right? Thank you very much, Rob.

Rob Trubia
All right. Now let's bring in Deputy Administrator Kale. Well, Katy, thank you for coming on the show today as GSA's Deputy Administrator, which basically means you're the Chief Operating Officer for an almost 13,000 person organization. And it's exciting news that GSA is now ranked as the number two midsize agency in all of the federal government. And as I understand it, this is both the highest ranking and the highest score GSA has ever received.

Katy, why is this important?

Katy Kale
Let me just say that we are thrilled to have this as the highest rating, rising from number four to number two, but it's a good point that you make about having the highest score. You know, the partnership has been giving these scores since 2003. So over 20 years, and the fact that we have the highest score now means that our employees are more engaged than ever.

And to me, that's what's really important, maybe even more so than where we landed in comparison to other agencies.

Rob Trubia
Well, what do you think some of the contributing factors are that have landed GSA at number two? I know that Arron mentioned the concept of putting people first, for example.

Katy Kale
I am I'm so happy that Arron mentioned that, concept of of putting people first at a GSA. We really make sure that we put people at the center of all we do. We actually call it our people first culture. And that means that we're giving people the tools, the training and the resources that they need to contribute their best to our mission.

And and that makes a difference. It means that we're celebrating each other's accomplishments, whether we're delivering a great website or opening a new federal building, or even helping a small business break into federal contracting, we're celebrating those accomplishments. But it also means that we're recognizing and celebrating our diverse communities within GSA. I'll tell you, this month alone, I have been honored to be part of events with several of GSA communities, including our AANHPI affinity Group, our persons with disabilities employee group, our mindfulness group, and our Veterans Employee Resource Association.

Now, you know, next month I might be invited to help raise the Pride Flag or the Juneteenth Flag, but it's all of these events that are part of putting our employees first.

Rob Trubia
When you put people first and have a people first culture, you're saying that really helps foster a diverse workforce?

Katy Kale
Absolutely. Not only does a people first culture help foster a diverse workforce, but a diverse workforce fosters a high performing workforce. You know, people want to be seen. They want to be heard. They want to be understood from their first interview to the day that they retire. And being deliberate about a people first culture means that we actively work to make people feel valued and respected.

And GSA is a place where really everyone can feel like they belong. And and when that happens, they know that they can thrive at their career. And those are the people who are going to be making an impact and an all of this makes GSA a magnet for talent. It helps us with our recruitment and our retention. And, you know, for me, it's really important because I believe that we deliver better for this very diverse country that we have when we reflect that diversity within our agency.

And that's why as as the COO, I'm passionate about embedding diversity, equity, inclusion and accessibility into everything that we do here at GSA.

Rob Trubia
Now, Katy, I'm curious what you think makes GSA such a great place to work.

Katy Kale
So I get that question often, and the answer is always the same. It's the people. There is a real and deep understanding of public service here at GSA. You may remember I called GSA the backbone of the government. We are behind the scenes in helping nearly every federal agency move its mission forward. And I think that that probably attracts a certain kind of person who really wants to make our country a better place.

As you know, this is my second time working here at GSA, and I love working around these kinds of people. And I will give you a little bit of a hint. You know, I am always saying always be recruiting, and it's that it's that public service that wanting to make our country a better place that I personally look for when I, when I'm hiring.

Rob Trubia
You know, speaking of recruiting, I'm sure a lot of young people coming out of high school or college may not have a career in civil service in mind. If you had the chance and you do right now, Katy, what would you share with them to get GSA on their radar?

Katy Kale
Well, so we have jobs at GSA for folks just entering their career if they're looking to make a change in their career or if they're looking for a place to retire. But since you asked about early career folks, I am happy to, give them my pitch right now. So to all of you, I want to share that we have a place for you at GSA, whether you are an architect or a techie.

A comms specialist or a finance specialist, if you like, real estate, acquisition or even human resources, we have a place for you and we want to make it as easy as possible for you to start and grow your career here at GSA. So if you are interested, please come check out gsa.gov because you may find one of our internships, our Enterprise Emerging Leader Program, our Acquisition Talent Development Program, or the US Digital Corps might really be something that is exactly what you're looking for.

Rob Trubia
That is a lot of opportunity for a lot of diverse people. We hope you take advantage of it. If you're listening out there. Katy, thank you again for taking the time. We really appreciate hearing from you and thank you for your words.

Katy Kale
Thank you Rob. Great being with you.

Rob Trubia
As we wrap up our episode, we hope you gained a deeper understanding of just what makes GSA a standout workplace within the federal government. A big thanks to Arron Helm, the upcoming Chief Human Capital Officer for GSA, and to Katy Kale, GSA's Chief Operating Officer and Deputy Administrator for driving home why GSA consistently ranks as one of the very best places to work in the federal government.

We hope you see that GSA offers a unique opportunity to be part of something greater. To explore careers at GSA, visit our website at gsa.gov, or check out usajobs.gov and learn more about how you can join this incredible team. Thank you for tuning in to “GSA Does That!?”. Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast on your favorite platform, and consider sharing this episode with friends and colleagues.

To suggest a topic or guest, drop us an email at gsadoesthat@gsa.gov. I'm Rob Trubia, joined by our executive producer, Max Stempora. This episode was brought to you by the General Services Administration, Office of Strategic Communication. I hope you have a great rest of your day.