GSA at 75

In a special episode of "GSA Does That!?", the show explores the history and significance of the General Services Administration, which recently marked its 75th anniversary. At a recent event at the Truman Presidential Library, GSA Administrator Robin Carnahan, Kurt Graham, and Dr. Sam Rushay from the Truman Library discussed the agency's evolution, its pivotal role, and its commitment to efficiency and customer service. The conversation brought attention to the agency's changing mission, its focus on technology, and its dedication to delivering services to the American people.

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• GSA at 75
• Truman Presidential Library

"GSA Does That!?" is the U.S. General Services Administration's first agency-wide podcast, offering listeners an inside look into how GSA and its partners benefit the American people. Hosted by Rob Trubia, the podcast features interviews with GSA leaders, experts, partners, and customers, covering topics such as federal real estate, acquisitions, and technology. The title reflects many's surprise at the scope of GSA's impact. At the same time, the artwork pays homage to President Harry S. Truman, who established GSA in 1949 to improve government efficiency and save taxpayer money. Whether you're a policy wonk or just curious about government operations, you can join the listener community.

For more information about the show visit, gsa.gov/podcast.

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction
• 1:48 GSA 75th Anniversary Event at Truman Presidential Library
• 41:07 Episode Close

Transcript

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;39;00
Rob Trubia
Well, welcome to a special episode of GSA Does That!?. The podcast that uncovers the stories behind the 75 year old agency delivering effective and efficient government. I'm your host, Rob Trubia. And that's right. GSA  is 75. It was on July 1st of 1949 that President Harry S. Truman established the General Services Administration with the mission of disposing of war surplus goods, regulating the sale of office supplies, and storing government records, among other things.


00;00;39;02 - 00;01;01;19
Rob Trubia
Well, over the years, we've evolved to deliver incredible value in real estate, acquisition, and technology services, all while executing over $1 billion in contracts each year. And with some of the best customer service we think you'll find anywhere. Not to mention, we were just recognized again as one of the very best places to work in the federal government.


00;01;01;23 - 00;01;32;13
Rob Trubia
We'd like to believe President Truman would be proud. Well, to celebrate this milestone event, we went on location to the Harry S. Truman Presidential Library and Museum in Independence, Missouri, where GSA Administrator Robin Carnahan joined in a conversation with Kurt Graham, the director of the Truman Library and Museum, and Doctor Sam Rushay, the library's supervisory archivist. They discussed just how GSA came into being and what was going on in the country at that time.


00;01;32;15 - 00;01;48;08
Rob Trubia
They explored Administrator Carnahan's family ties to the Truman's, and just how GSA evolved into the leading edge agency it is today. So we hope you enjoy a bit of history and celebration of GSA at 75. Thanks for listening.


00;01;48;11 - 00;02;07;14
 Kurt Graham
If it's Monday at the Truman Library, it is institutional history, and we are excited to have you here with us and appreciate very much that you would attend this program this afternoon. I'm Kurt Graham, I'm the director of the Truman Presidential Library and Museum, and it is always a pleasure to welcome an audience here to what we consider to be a very hallowed space.


00;02;07;14 - 00;02;40;06
 Kurt Graham
And we're very, very grateful to be able to present this program today with the GSA's own administrator, Robin Carnahan, and our very own doctor, Sam Rushay, who is our supervisory archivist here. Sam is a not only an expert on all things GSA, all things Truman, really all things presidential, pretty much all things. And so we appreciate, having him here to help us round out and, of course, Administrator Carnahan is someone who is steeped in the history, has personal connections to the history as well as we'll discuss it during this program.


00;02;40;06 - 00;02;45;18
 Kurt Graham
So. So thank you both for being here. And thank you for, providing this, this wonderful opportunity.


00;02;45;19 - 00;02;47;07
Robin Carnahan
Thanks for having us. This is great.


00;02;47;13 - 00;03;13;12
 Kurt Graham
Good. Good to have you. Well, Sam, why don't we start, give a little context here first, for some people, 75 years ago, as we just saw in this, in this video, Congress was passing legislation to establish the General Services Administration. So what was happening in Washington and around the country that made that, the sort of informs that activity of the Congress at that time?


00;03;13;15 - 00;03;42;01
Sam Rushay
Well, thank you, Kurt. a lot was happening in the world, in 1949, World War two had ended just four years prior to that, Harry Truman, took the oath of office as a newly elected president in his own right, having been elected in an upset win in 1948. He had delivered a state of the Union address asking for a strengthened program that was characterized as the Fair Deal.


00;03;42;03 - 00;04;08;21
Sam Rushay
He called for a bold new program to help underprivileged, privileged. Excuse me. Underprivileged people of the Earth. The 0.4 program. He signed the National Security Act amendment, also in 1949, that established a unified Department of Defense. He proclaimed the national the North Atlantic Pact, known as NATO later that year, in August and September, announced there was evidence of a Russian atomic explosion.


00;04;08;24 - 00;04;29;16
Sam Rushay
And in October, to cap off the year, there was the fall of mainland China to communism. Now, I mentioned all that. And by way of just context, you know, for what was happening around the world, but at home also, there was, some economic, challenges that he had that helped lead to the birth of GSA in July of that year.


00;04;29;16 - 00;04;58;12
Sam Rushay
Just briefly. You know, I mentioned that he had fought for the Fair Deal. But he battled a fairly severe economic slowdown in 1949 as well, with unemployment and inflation rising, during the first six months, heightening of the fear that the nation's postwar economic boom, might be over. And  so he sought to kind of balance the federal budget as much as he could through a combination of taxes and limited spending.


00;04;58;14 - 00;05;22;04
Sam Rushay
And, you know, and he also wanted to reorganize the government. I mean, there were dozens of agencies that had been created during the, during the New Deal, the 1930s, Franklin Roosevelt's New Deal to combat the Great Depression, and, of course, World War two, the all the alphabet agencies that sprouted up. Well, there was a need to reorganize the government in a very fundamental way.


00;05;22;07 - 00;05;52;12
Sam Rushay
In those years 1945 and 1949, there were these reorganization acts that were passed and and, you know, I think one of the important things is this Hoover Commission that was established, they prepared a blueprint for reorganizing the government and again, all this is the context for the creation of GSA what’s ironic about the Hoover Commission is that it was intended by the, Republican led, 80th Congress to sort of dismantle the New Deal.


00;05;52;15 - 00;06;13;27
Sam Rushay
But, you know, within the anticipation, was it Harry Truman would lose the election in 1948 and that the Hoover Commission would just go in and systematically take apart, you know, the New Deal and the Fair Deal. Well, Harry Truman won unexpectedly, so he used the Hoover Commission to convert it into an effective body, to advise on how to make the existing government structure work better.


00;06;14;00 - 00;06;27;15
Sam Rushay
And so that's it kind of sets the tone for the establishment of GSA through the Federal Property and Administrative Services Act of July 1949, which for Harry Truman was about good management and good governance.


00;06;27;18 - 00;06;47;22
 Kurt Graham
That's very interesting. Robin, I wanted to, you know, we saw in the video and as Sam was saying Truman had this goal of making government more efficient, making it, making it better, saving saving some money along the way. What is your understanding of what what was going on in Truman's mind regarding the GSA? He had some kind of specific thoughts.


00;06;47;25 - 00;07;13;22
Robin Carnahan
Yeah. Look at as as we heard, the government had expanded tremendously during the Second World War. And it turns out the executive branch had actually never been organized, ever. It just sort of accrued over time. And so this this commission report, I brought a prop, I brought the Truman, the Hoover Commission report right here.


00;07;13;24 - 00;07;14;26
 Kurt Graham
There'll be a quiz at the end.


00;07;14;26 - 00;07;38;20
Robin Carnahan
That that has it has a whole section on setting up an Office of General Services and talks about the reason for that. And one of the one of the things I was most impressed by is this commission was this was set up in 47 and, and was like just got through Congress. No problem. It was, I think, a unanimous vote to set this up, which is interesting in and of itself.


00;07;38;23 - 00;08;06;04
Robin Carnahan
And then it was that happened in 47. The report came back in February of 49. So like 18 months. And GSA was established in July. So you think about that timeline. It was like not a lot of fiddling around because the president knew that there were huge opportunities for efficiency and savings. And so it turned, as you saw on that video, like every agency dealt with real estate, everybody dealt with procurement, everybody dealt with everything.


00;08;06;04 - 00;08;29;01
Robin Carnahan
There was lots of reinventing of the wheel. And, you know, I always think that Truman was a guy who was pretty practical. He was a businessman. He was a county judge, right? He was a commissioner who had to actually deliver things for people. And I know, from his time, on the Truman Committee. Right. The Oversight Committee saw what waste and fraud looked like.


00;08;29;03 - 00;08;35;10
Robin Carnahan
He wanted no part of that. So that was the establishment of GSA. And and, we are proud to continue that legacy.


00;08;35;17 - 00;08;59;14
 Kurt Graham
Well, it's a great legacy. And certainly, you're absolutely correct. Truman was very concerned about fraud and waste and spent a lot of I mean, I think he really made his career largely around confronting that. And that's and the GSA is a big part of that. Sam, you know, when you think about the work of the GSA, I mean, as it's historically, I mean, it it it builds and builds facilities and renovates them, right?


00;08;59;14 - 00;09;21;28
 Kurt Graham
I mean, that's a big part of what the what the what the GSA does is, is, is a landlord to much of the much of the government. So, we have a really big renovation project that we talk about here. In fact, right outside those doors, there's a there's an exhibit about this, and that is the, renovation of the White House that was completed during, President Truman's, second term.


00;09;21;28 - 00;09;25;28
 Kurt Graham
What can you tell us about that? That's that's an interesting connection as well.


00;09;26;01 - 00;09;50;06
Sam Rushay
Yeah. Yes, it's a very interesting connection. And I would encourage you, if you've haven't had the chance yet, to check out the, the Truman's Washington exhibit right outside the doors here where you'll see a very excellent treatment. I think, of the renovation of the White House is on top of all the other issues that President Truman had to deal with was the fact that the White House was basically falling apart after years of disrepair.


00;09;50;08 - 00;10;14;14
Sam Rushay
You know, it was not unknown, you know, but but his predecessor, Frank Franklin Roosevelt and Eleanor Roosevelt were well aware of these problems. But the, the challenges of the depression and World War two meant that that renovation had to be put on the back burner. Well, by 1948, that that was no longer the case. There's a famous story about a piano leg falling through the floor of Margaret Truman's, bedroom.


00;10;14;16 - 00;10;37;17
Sam Rushay
There's a story about a, a dinner where people witnessed a chandelier starting to shake. And it was because of the structural instability of the of the White House. And so, the General Services Administration had a very important role to play in the White House renovation. In fact, it headed, a major overhaul of the of the White House between 1949 and 1952.


00;10;37;18 - 00;10;58;12
Sam Rushay
It was the federal agency that was in charge of it under the custodianship of of, the White House. Excuse me? The the Commission on the renovation of the Executive Mansion, which was a bipartisan organization commissioned by Congress and President Truman himself, who had the ultimate, veto. But in his oral history, it's available on our website.


00;10;58;15 - 00;11;23;26
Sam Rushay
GSA Administrator Larsen, who you saw a picture of earlier, noted that Harry Truman basically ran the show, even though, you know, this commission and the GSA were technically in charge, he he tended to Truman was a great decision maker. And like with any any commission or organization, there was disagreements. Well, Truman would adjudicate those or just make the decision himself on what to do.


00;11;23;28 - 00;11;54;24
Sam Rushay
And, if you haven't had a chance to look at the book Robert by Robert Klara. That's Klara with the K. Klara. It's the hidden White House. he goes into great detail about this renovation and the role of GSA in it, and, you know, I can mention a couple things about it. It's really kind of striking to me that some of the most valuable material, that was discarded after the White House was basically gutted, were posed at the GSA warehouse in Washington at seventh and D streets.


00;11;55;01 - 00;11;56;19
Robin Carnahan
Probably still there.


00;11;56;22 - 00;12;21;12
Sam Rushay
And it's still there. Exactly. And some of this material was sold off to the public, you know, everything. But the exterior walls of the White House were were basically gutted. I mean, it was a extremely large scale project costing, doesn't sound like much, $5.7 million, but that's 1949 money and still seems like a pretty good deal by $50, $53 million in today's money.


00;12;21;12 - 00;12;50;22
Sam Rushay
Which again, sounds like an incredible good deal. But, you know, it was a again, a very large scale project. It didn't involve the residents. Truman's did not live in the White House for about four years. They lived in Blair House across the street, and eventually, when it was seen a picture. Well, the picture right there is, Harry Truman presented with the gold key to reenter the White House in 1952.


00;12;50;24 - 00;13;01;20
Sam Rushay
But, again, this was a very large scale, project did not involve the Oval Office or the West Wing, but anyway, it was very large scale.


00;13;01;23 - 00;13;21;20
Robin Carnahan
And I. Can I weigh in on a couple things. So part of one of the stories that I like is that, they had they gutted the interior of the White House. The only thing left standing were these outside walls, but they didn't want to cut any other holes. And so they took a bulldozer apart piece by piece and put it back together inside.


00;13;21;23 - 00;13;40;28
Robin Carnahan
Right, to be able to do the gut rehab and then, of course, had to take it apart again to, to get it back out. But, I, I love the commitment to historic preservation that that showed, but also just just a comment on the like, why didn't this happen before? Like, the place was a mess for a long time.


00;13;41;00 - 00;14;05;09
Robin Carnahan
But nobody's really ever unwilling to not live there. Right? If you get elected, you want to live there. But Truman was just, like, at the end of his rope on this. And so after the election in 1948, he moved into Blair House, and spent pretty much four years there. And I will tell you, there used to be some more rehab on the White House, but getting agreement on that is no small trick.


00;14;05;11 - 00;14;29;12
 Kurt Graham
But what an interesting I mean, I've always thought that was a tremendous sacrifice on the part of the Trumans to take their time in office, to enjoy the White House and allow it to be renovated. So every family since that has enjoyed that really owes them a debt of gratitude there. And it's, it is funny because, you know, we we sometimes lose sight of the fact that, you know, all the government remodels this or builds this building or does some big project.


00;14;29;14 - 00;14;46;22
 Kurt Graham
Somebody has to do that, right? I mean, somebody has to oversee that. Somebody has to be in charge of that. And, and, and certainly the, you know, the White House, I mean, the people's House, I mean, what an incredible what an incredible, project for them to for them to oversee and be a part of.


00;14;46;25 - 00;15;13;18
 Kurt Graham
Robin, I, I wanted to point out, I mean, you're the head of a major federal agency. Obviously, as the administrator of GSA. but you're also a Missourian, and you are also, like, the Truman's a part of a political family. So tell us a little bit about the ties between your family and the and the Truman's and a little bit of your sort of personal connection, not just to GSA, but to this story that we're, you know, we're in the Truman Library today.


00;15;13;18 - 00;15;15;02
 Kurt Graham
I think it's appropriate to have you talk a little bit.


00;15;15;02 - 00;15;34;05
Robin Carnahan
Sure. That's always easy to talk about. So, you know, obviously I'm a proud Missourian and grew up in a family, that was devoted to public service, but it was more about action than it was about words. And so that whole show me ethos, that Truman took to Washington with him, is something that is ingrained in me as well.


00;15;34;07 - 00;16;03;25
Robin Carnahan
In my family, I will say that my grandfather was in Congress at the same time as Truman. So he was a congressman when Truman was in the Senate, and then he served in Congress, and Truman was president. And, and so they were these two farm boys from South Missouri who had their lives informed by being in World War One and when they got in these positions, ended up using all of those experiences to really drive massive change, not just in the country, but the world.


00;16;03;25 - 00;16;27;24
Robin Carnahan
But, you know, my grandfather was on the Foreign Affairs committee. He represented south central Missouri, but he was on the Foreign Affairs Committee, and he ran around the country selling the Marshall Plan, along with a Republican colleague and, and, and traveled all over the United States to every Rotary Club and Kiwanis club to talk about how important it was to invest in the Marshall Plan.


00;16;27;26 - 00;16;47;20
Robin Carnahan
He also worked together with the president on, on the establishment of the UN and worked closely, on the GI Bill. But it always struck me as interesting that these two farm boys from South Missouri understood that it was not only just morally correct to rebuild Europe, but that it was in the interest of the United States to rebuild Europe.


00;16;47;22 - 00;17;15;18
Robin Carnahan
So, so, I've always I've always appreciated that, my mother, when she served in the Senate, was sat at Harry Truman's desk. My my brother, was very instrumental in getting the Truman statue, in the capital, which had not been there before. So you all out there at that dedication? if y'all don't know, it is in the, Capitol rotunda, and, interestingly replaced Alexander Hamilton, who was no longer in the room where it happened.


00;17;15;21 - 00;17;17;26
 Kurt Graham
Apropos, apropos, apropos.


00;17;17;29 - 00;17;37;19
Robin Carnahan
So, anyway, and my father, of course, was a was a great fan of, of of Harry Truman as well. He told the story I recall as a kid that when he was young, he was in Saint Louis at Union Station the day after the 48 election, where Truman came in and held up the newspaper, famously.


00;17;37;21 - 00;17;39;21
Robin Carnahan
so that was, cool.


00;17;39;23 - 00;17;46;04
 Kurt Graham
That that's that's very cool. I didn't I didn't there's that's more than 1 or 2 connections there. And so it's a pretty good, pretty good overlap.


00;17;46;04 - 00;17;56;02
Robin Carnahan
One of dad's favorite quotes, as always, of Truman's, was, always do right. It'll gratify some people and astonish the rest. Yeah. So I've kind of lived by that as well.


00;17;56;02 - 00;18;16;12
 Kurt Graham
I always thought of Harry Truman as the Will Rogers of the American presidency, always had those kind of earthy, yeah. Earthy quotes. I was going to ask you two, while we're on this subject, I mean, the, you know, this notion of of, why Truman did what he did to, you know, bring the efficiency and do they do those things?


00;18;16;12 - 00;18;31;07
 Kurt Graham
But what do you think, in your experience running this agency now? And the things that I'm sure there are several things that you're very proud of, that the work of the agency. What do you think? If Harry Truman were here today, what do you think he would be proud of, of of you and your team and the work that you do for the government?


00;18;31;07 - 00;18;52;11
Robin Carnahan
Yeah, that's a great question. Look, Truman, GSA's role early on really was about real estate and acquisitions, because those were two important things, cost a lot of money. There was a lot of duplication. But that if you think about it, that is how government got delivered right for people. So you had to have staff in offices, you had to have stuff in those offices.


00;18;52;11 - 00;19;14;21
Robin Carnahan
Like that's how government service was delivered to people. Well, what I am, I think most pleased about is we have stuck with that notion that we have to deliver government that's effective and efficient for the people that we serve, which was the foundational notion that Truman had, but have evolved with the times. And so nowadays people buildings are part of it, acquisition is part of it.


00;19;14;21 - 00;19;33;07
Robin Carnahan
But technology is a huge part of it. AI as a huge part of it, there all of these other things that government is expected to do to be able to deliver for people. And so I think that Truman would appreciate that we never have lost sight of the original purpose, which is make government work well and deliver for the people it serves.


00;19;33;09 - 00;19;35;23
Robin Carnahan
but to keep up with changing times.


00;19;35;26 - 00;19;54;04
 Kurt Graham
That's a that's a that's a great answer, you know, and it is interesting because it is because I think there are efficiencies. I mean, certainly we've seen that in our age. I mean, we I mean, the government agencies do a lot of things well, but that's not really it's hard to get that message out. I think people just assume, I mean government bureaucracies.


00;19;54;04 - 00;19;56;04
Robin Carnahan
When it goes, well, you don't you don't read about.


00;19;56;04 - 00;20;17;14
 Kurt Graham
It. Right? Exactly. Exactly right. I mean, so it's kind of a thing, but when it doesn't, you, you do in a hurry. And I think that that's, that's very interesting that it's a it's a tough message in some ways because people don't really want to hear, oh look how efficient the government has been in delivering these services. And look how many billions of dollars were saved because of the the way you negotiated contracts or whatever with, with suppliers.


00;20;17;14 - 00;20;19;01
 Kurt Graham
I mean, those are important things.


00;20;19;01 - 00;20;37;04
Robin Carnahan
Yeah, I can I can talk about that. We've gotten I, we hit a record last year of buying $100 billion worth of goods and services, on behalf of the American people last year, but, you know, have saved $6 billion like we can we can accrue these savings. And  so just really proud of the team for doing that.


00;20;37;04 - 00;21;06;01
Robin Carnahan
And one of the things I've on my mantra these days is one of our jobs is to make the damn websites work. And  so I know that you all probably have experience when those don't work, either in your private life or certainly in interacting with government. but we're getting better at that. And, one, one example I love to talk about, I don't know if during, during Covid, when the tests were being sent out, if anybody remembers, if you went and ordered a, some tests on the website, I know I did.


00;21;06;01 - 00;21;22;09
Robin Carnahan
Anybody here order tests on that website. So my mother, when this thing was all being rolled out, I said, hey, mom, you need to, you know, go and order your tests. And she said, oh, can't you do it for me? And and I said, no, no, no, you need to just go online. You can order this.


00;21;22;09 - 00;21;44;03
Robin Carnahan
It'll be easy. She calls me back in like, 90 seconds and says, wow, that was so easy. Wow. I wish all Government Works website work like this. And then she said, are you going to  make them all work so well. That was my mother. Like what did you do today for the people? Yes.


00;21;44;05 - 00;21;48;11
 Kurt Graham
Well, we maybe need to get you to talk to the NARA web people and see if we can get you,.


00;21;48;11 - 00;21;48;26
Robin Carnahan
I got thoughts, yeah.


00;21;48;28 - 00;22;11;23
 Kurt Graham
Yeah, that would be. We would appreciate that very much. Sam, let's just shift for a second here. I want to talk. I don't want this conversation to go by without highlighting the, the relationship between the Truman Library, between NARA and the GSA, because there's a history there, too, independent of of the current administrator. I mean, there's there's a history there that goes that goes way back.


00;22;11;23 - 00;22;14;01
 Kurt Graham
Tell us a little bit about that.


00;22;14;03 - 00;22;48;14
Sam Rushay
Yeah. That's a very interesting story. And, you know, it originates during Harry Truman's presidency when on top of the other issues he had, he was dealing with, Truman was interested in where his papers would go after he left office, you know, and, he was always a very keen student of history. Love to read history. And he was always interested in making sure that his papers were preserved so that future generations could use them and learn the lessons of his, his, his times as president and learn how government works.


00;22;48;14 - 00;23;15;21
Sam Rushay
You know and learn. Learn the lessons of the challenges and issues that he faced, which would have had lessons for the future. So yeah, as I say, even before he left office, he was considering what to do with his papers. And, you know, the natural place at that time was with, with GSA, which ran the National Archives and, you know, effective with its creation, with GSA's creation in 1949.


00;23;15;23 - 00;23;43;00
Sam Rushay
And GSA had already administered the federal the Franklin Roosevelt Library in Hyde Park, New York, and as well as the National Archives. So the Truman Library became the second presidential library established. But this was not without some controversy or discussion, because the archivist of the United States, Wayne Grover, at that time, thought that the the National Park Service should administer the Truman Library, that the GSA really did not have a grounding in, in history.


00;23;43;02 - 00;24;07;23
Sam Rushay
That was necessary, in his view, you know, to run the library. But I think, well, Truman's view eventually was won over by an aide of his important aide, George Elsey. And George Elsey, played a key role, saying that no GSA should administer the Truman Library. And Truman approved this because I think, in Elsey's view, running the library was not just about history, but it's about administration.


00;24;07;23 - 00;24;50;06
Sam Rushay
Who can best, run this library once it's been built. And the way it was was done is. Excuse me? The private funds were used to build a presidential library. Per the Presidential Library Act of 1955, and basically, that was the enabling legislation that that created the Truman Library two years later in 1957. And, it allowed for the federal government to accept presidential papers and the land, buildings and equipment and staff such as Kurt and me, for a presidential library and, GSA was involved in the review process for drafting this law.


00;24;50;08 - 00;25;15;07
Sam Rushay
And so, you know, on the dedication day of the Truman Library on a hot summer day in July 1957, Basil O'Connor, who was representing the Truman Library incorporated, which was a private, the private arm of the Truman Library, similar to the Truman Library Institute today passed title of to the land in the building to GSA Administrator Franklin Floatie.


00;25;15;09 - 00;25;17;28
Sam Rushay
And I'll say more about when we look at the slide here. Remember.


00;25;18;00 - 00;25;21;11
 Kurt Graham
Did you want to go to the slide now or did we want to, We can.


00;25;21;13 - 00;25;23;09
Sam Rushay
Sure. We can do that. Yes.


00;25;23;11 - 00;25;24;04
 Kurt Graham
Who's got the clicker?


00;25;24;06 - 00;25;24;15
Sam Rushay
Well I just.


00;25;24;15 - 00;25;25;02
 Kurt Graham
Oh you got.


00;25;25;05 - 00;25;47;00
Sam Rushay
Yeah I think I have the, we got the, the power got the clicker power. We've seen that slide there which is very nice. One of the, the renovation. But this is what I'm talking about here. This is a photo of the dedication of the library in 1957. And GSA Administrator Franklin Floatie addressed the crowd. We have about is about a three minute speech.


00;25;47;00 - 00;26;18;02
Sam Rushay
So we actually have maybe we can put it on the website later. And he was, he was there, representing the Eisenhower administration, which succeeded in the Truman administration. And that's kind of a fun quick story. President Eisenhower had been invited to attend the dedication, but, and this we don't have time to get into too much of it, but there'd been a basically a falling out between Truman and Eisenhower, which you may be familiar with.


00;26;18;05 - 00;26;50;03
Sam Rushay
And so instead of coming to Independence himself, Eisenhower sent Mr. Floatie in the latter's official role and not as Eisenhower's personal representative. And and that was not lost on the Truman, Truman and the Truman people, who saw the this as, well, I wouldn't use the word a slight, but but as a kind of a, that Eisenhower didn't want to take the time or trouble to come to independence because he was not having good relations with, with, with Truman.


00;26;50;05 - 00;27;20;06
Sam Rushay
And the split had happened basically over the 1952 presidential campaign. that got pretty bitter and acrimonious. You know, even by today's standards. And, Eisenhower was the Republican nominee for president. Harry Truman was not running for president, but he was, campaigning vigorously for Adlai Stevenson, who was the Democratic Party nominee for president. And, you know, and then again, there's other reasons here, you know, for it.


00;27;20;06 - 00;27;42;17
Sam Rushay
But there was a kind of, a break in their relations. They eventually mended fences. And in fact, Eisenhower came to the Truman Library when he left office and took a tour of the building here, just to see about how our library was established so he could establish his own presidential library in Abilene. So it ended up having basically a happy ending, I guess.


00;27;42;19 - 00;28;15;10
 Kurt Graham
Yeah. You know, I want to on this photo, though, I wanted to I wanted to sort of draw attention to something because in this, in the old days, these earlier libraries like like Truman and Eisenhower and others, up until, the Presidential Records Act, which affects Reagan forward. But all the libraries up to that point, there was, if I understand it right, Sam, a ceremony just like this where the president would build the library and then the administrator would be there and they would literally hand the key to the building and the deed of, of gift, basically of the, of the facility.


00;28;15;13 - 00;28;45;24
 Kurt Graham
It, by virtue of that ceremony, became a federal building. It became a federal facility, even though it had been built with private private dollars. So a little different than than maybe most federal buildings enter the, enter the ownership or the. But but I think that's just a very interesting thing that they, they, they had that official ceremony where the transfer of the, of the facility went to, went to the government to keep it to run forever and ever in perpetuity.


00;28;45;27 - 00;29;06;08
 Kurt Graham
So we hope very good. So with that, I wanted to, switch back to something. And you had mentioned this sort of in passing, but I wanted to give you a minute to maybe flesh this out a little bit more if you wanted to. And that is this, the important role that GSA plays today when it comes to technology?


00;29;06;08 - 00;29;38;06
 Kurt Graham
I mean, when you think about what it takes to run the government, I mean, every agency, every I mean, I can't even I don't even know I'm interested to hear your answer because I know it's much vaster than I even have ever really contemplated. But I think, you know, given this day. Look at the slide we're looking at, you know, what technology was in this building when everything was done, you know, manually, basically, and with typewriters and catalog cards and all that to today where everything is digitized and, and, and the massive investment that that is.


00;29;38;06 - 00;29;42;03
 Kurt Graham
Can you talk to us a little bit about why technology is so important for us today?


00;29;42;04 - 00;30;05;20
Robin Carnahan
Yeah. Look, we've we've all seen it in our lives. The technology's sort of eaten everything. And that's no different when it comes to the government. But as I said before, like the genius I think of, of, the, the Hoover Commission and the president's establishment of, of GSA was that it really was about delivering effectively and efficiently.


00;30;05;20 - 00;30;30;02
Robin Carnahan
So whatever that means in the time that you're living in, that's the job. And so we've had a transition, and the GSA has got a long history of doing that. Early on, you know, we were early adopters of the internet. We were early adopters of, all of these kind of tools. And then once we could test them out, we then can go get them, you know, deployed in other parts of the government.


00;30;30;02 - 00;30;54;14
Robin Carnahan
Today we're really focused, on, on AI and are testing out lots of things about how to do that responsibly. We've been leaders when it comes to sustainability, because if you think about that, if you think about government being effective, and saving money, sustainability and making our buildings, more efficient, straight up saves money. It's it's good for American jobs.


00;30;54;14 - 00;31;14;26
Robin Carnahan
It's good for saving money by reducing energy prices and costs. And and it's good for the climate and it's good for our kids. So it it is a win across the board. And so GSA has been a great leader in that as well. it's interesting that because you have this role and you have like buying power, that's really significant, right?


00;31;14;28 - 00;31;41;01
Robin Carnahan
In the government. And so, you know, early on, one of the things GSA is in charge of, is vehicles biggest fleet of vehicles that 400,000 or so. And  if we can, we can help change the market when it comes to those things. In 1965, before there was a, you know, traffic safety, bills that were passed in the Johnson administration, we'd adopted all that stuff at GSA as early adopters of that.


00;31;41;01 - 00;32;10;27
Robin Carnahan
And if anybody's heard of LEED certified buildings, that's like the sort of gold standard. Now, of whether a building is efficient. That was just the thing that was floating around out in, in the industry. And then when GSA and the Defense Department decided to adopt that standard, that's become the global standard of of building efficiency measures. So, it really is a very unique place to be able to, like, figure out what makes sense and can be efficient.


00;32;10;27 - 00;32;41;13
Robin Carnahan
And to do that, one thing I you asked about what Truman would appreciate. I think one of the things that we do when it comes to technology in particular is, I think about it as shared services. So if you think about, like how somebody interacts with the government, it kind of if it's online, whether it's a student trying to get a loan or a business person or a farmer or somebody applying for Medicare or veterans benefits, all of those things that the person the human government interaction is very similar.


00;32;41;13 - 00;32;56;29
Robin Carnahan
You got to be able to get online. You got to be able to log in and make sure you are the person you say you are. You've got to be able to transfer safely and securely personal information back and forth, maybe money back and forth and do an audit. So from a technology point of view, that's all really, really similar.


00;32;57;02 - 00;33;15;27
Robin Carnahan
And agencies have tended to just go reinvent the wheel and do the same thing over and over again. And so it's GSA's job to say, hey, look, here's the pattern that we see and we're going to provide services. So guess what? Taxpayers pay for one time not hundreds of times to do the same thing. So we're very focused on that.


00;33;15;29 - 00;33;44;14
 Kurt Graham
That's really interesting. You know again this theme of efficiency that you've brought out in the discussion about how important it is for government to be efficient, but also what you said there, as a corollary to that is to be sort of on the vanguard of change. I mean, to be leading change, not just reacting to things, to say, oh, here's the problem, let's make this better, but to get out ahead of the problem and to sort of decide, you know, what can we do to to introduce efficiency from the beginning so we don't have something inefficient to unravel down the road?


00;33;44;14 - 00;34;08;26
 Kurt Graham
That's very the very interesting answer. You know, I wanted to turn your attention to a Truman related question. Because I understand that, you know, you know, anybody our our Truman audience understands that Truman has an incredible civil rights legacy. He really paved the way for a lot of what Johnson accomplished with the Great Society and all of that in, in the 60s.


00;34;08;26 - 00;34;34;27
 Kurt Graham
I mean, he, he, he really with the desegregation orders in particular. But there were other things he did, to, to bring fairness and equity. What we now just sort of toss off as DEI, you know, today. But I mean, he took that stuff very seriously. And I wonder if you can talk a little bit about that part of your legacy as an agency, because I think that you've you've sort of carried on in what we would call here very proudly the Truman tradition.


00;34;35;00 - 00;35;00;22
Robin Carnahan
Yeah. That's again, that's something that GSA has done for a long, long time. But we sort of understanding the government works best when it works for everyone. You know, while I often say the government in some ways is like a service delivery business, right? One big difference between government and a company besides the money part and who pays, and how they pay is the government doesn't get to choose its customers.


00;35;00;24 - 00;35;23;19
Robin Carnahan
Right. Everybody else kind of gets to decide who they want to serve. Government's job is to serve everyone. And so it's always been the view at GSA that we we do best if we serve everyone. And so we have a lot of initiatives that that are around, equity and what that takes lots of different forms and thinks about, as we put it, as we do siting decisions in communities.


00;35;23;22 - 00;35;47;26
Robin Carnahan
We know  that historically underserved communities have taken the brunt of a lot of, you know, big infrastructure projects that have ripped up communities. And so we are very thoughtful about where we are siting things. We're very thoughtful about making sure our our facilities and our, our websites and everything else are accessible to everyone, and that we really do have a government that that looks like our people.


00;35;47;26 - 00;35;50;07
Robin Carnahan
And we work hard at that.


00;35;50;10 - 00;36;04;11
 Kurt Graham
Sam, I wanted to, turn back. I know, I know, you had a couple of slides, teed up here. Are there additional couple of other things you wanted to add here? I thought there was a. I thought this might not say. There's another slide.


00;36;04;11 - 00;36;25;18
Sam Rushay
We do, we do? Yes. Quickly. just to show the connection again. And, between Harry Truman and the GSA. which, and this is a photo it's described there. this is, this picture was taken in Truman's office here at the Truman Library. If you have a chance to tour the library, there's a it's called the working office.


00;36;25;18 - 00;36;51;10
Sam Rushay
Not to be confused with the Oval Office replica of the the working offices across our courtyard. And Truman was very fond of meeting with with all kinds of, groups and individuals and, in this case, here at a desk of civil service interns from the local region of the, of the GSA. And there's no, I don't think there's anybody famous in this picture other than Harry Truman, other than, and,  these these, interns.


00;36;51;10 - 00;37;01;05
Sam Rushay
Although you may note, this is 1958. And on the point of diversity and inclusion, I think I'll just let the picture stand for itself.


00;37;01;07 - 00;37;02;28
 Kurt Graham
We’ve come a long  way.


00;37;03;00 - 00;37;27;04
Sam Rushay
Yes, we have come a long way. And then there's another. This is the last picture I have here. And we do have other, other photos as well in our collection and other materials. I mentioned the Jess Larson oral history interview that's on our website has a lot of wonderful information about the the White House renovation, but, but yeah, it's basically our the there a little photo photo display.


00;37;27;04 - 00;37;52;00
 Kurt Graham
And just, just underscoring the connection that he personally had, you know, with and he obviously had a lot of confidence to wear that tie in in that particular way. But you know, hey, it's got to be what it is. So, so finally, you know, we're we're here celebrating an anniversary. I mean, this is 75 years that this agency has been has been here and been been a part of obviously, our agency's history as well.


00;37;52;05 - 00;37;56;06
 Kurt Graham
Up until when was it that it was 1985? I understand.


00;37;56;06 - 00;37;56;22
Sam Rushay
1985.


00;37;56;22 - 00;37;57;07
 Kurt Graham
Five. Is that right?


00;37;57;07 - 00;38;25;18
Sam Rushay
Okay. Exactly. Yeah. And that and that's a really good point. You bring up Kurt, because, I mean, GSA was involved in, you know, not just the helping with the site selection and the, you know, running the library and the other several libraries that came online, including Eisenhower and others after 1957. But in future years after 1957, the Public Building Service of GSA was involved in the acquisition of land for the future.


00;38;25;19 - 00;38;51;25
Sam Rushay
For the future expansion of the Truman Library. Because what you see here was not what was here. In 1957, there were at least two other large scale renovations, not to mention our most recent renovation. But GSA was also involved in staffing, including pay and benefits for for Truman Library staff from 1957 until the independence of NARa, National Archives and Records Administration as an independent federal government agency in 1985.


00;38;51;28 - 00;39;23;21
 Kurt Graham
Very good. I'm just wondering, in the spirit of this, anniversary celebration, when you think about all the lessons of history and the rich history that you've talked about, I mean, it's obviously personal to you, but it's also personal to us because it involves Truman in a very direct way. When you think about those lessons, what do you feel are some of the most important points or key learnings that you take from this rich history as you chart a vision for a course forward, for GSA?


00;39;23;23 - 00;40;02;04
Robin Carnahan
Well, thanks for that question. Look, I, fundamentally, government has to deliver for people. That says it all, right. And if if our government doesn't deliver, then democracy is not delivering. And we have lots of other threats when that happens. And so to me, it really is. Truman hit the nail on the head when he talked about wanting government to be effective and efficient, making sure that it wasn't some faraway thing that people didn't feel connected to, but knew it was directly impacting people's lives.


00;40;02;04 - 00;40;25;21
Robin Carnahan
And so, I talk about it all the time, with our team, which is that it's our job to deliver for the American people. That's the expectation, whether that is a personal encounter, whether that is somebody walking into a federal building, whether that is somebody going to a website, that every time we do that, it's not about a website or about a building.


00;40;25;24 - 00;40;34;27
Robin Carnahan
It's about trust, and it's about trust in government and about trust in democracy. And I think there's no more important job for any of us.


00;40;35;00 - 00;40;39;28
 Kurt Graham
That's great. I know we have a lot of GSA employees in the audience. I'm just kind of curious.


00;40;40;01 - 00;40;46;00
Robin Carnahan
Oh yeah. Y'all stand up GSAers and former GSAers. Thank you.


00;40;46;03 - 00;40;49;08
 Kurt Graham
Look at that. Wow.


00;40;49;10 - 00;41;07;00
Robin Carnahan
Happy anniversary. Excellent. You know, one of the one of the things I learned a few weeks ago is that we have, I don't know, 25 or 26 people at GSA who have been there more than 50 years. Wow. These are folks who are absolutely committed to the mission.


00;41;07;03 - 00;41;40;01
Rob Trubia
Well, we hope you've enjoyed getting to know GSA a bit better and celebrating with us 75 years of service to our great country. A very special thank you to Administrator Carnahan, Kurt Graham, and Doctor Sam Rushay of the Truman Library, and all of those behind the scenes that made this very special event happen. In our next episode, we'll sit down with the new executive director of the Technology Modernization Fund and the Chief Information Officer of an agency doing big things to change the way it serves the American worker.


00;41;40;04 - 00;42;05;03
Rob Trubia
Thank you for tuning in to GSA Does That!? Don't forget to subscribe to our podcast on your favorite platform, and consider sharing this episode with friends and colleagues. To suggest a topic or guest, drop us an email at gsadoesthat@gsa.gov. I'm Rob Trubia, joined by our executive producer Max Stempora. This episode was brought to you by the General Services Administration, Office of Strategic Communication.


00;42;05;06 - 00;42;08;18
Rob Trubia
I hope you have a great rest of your day.